Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 21. Jun 2025, 10:54:36
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <1035vgs$10dm8$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2025-06-20 17:17:40 +0000, olcott said:

On 6/20/2025 3:51 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-19 07:02:27 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/19/2025 1:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-18 18:28:43 +0000, Mr Flibble said:
 
On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 08:53:07 -0500, olcott wrote:
 
On 6/18/2025 6:01 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/17/25 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/17/2025 8:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/17/25 4:34 PM, olcott wrote:
void Infinite_Recursion()
{
   Infinite_Recursion();
   return;
}
 void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE; return;
}
 void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
 When it is understood that HHH does simulate itself simulating DDD
then any first year CS student knows that when each of the above are
correctly simulated by HHH that none of them ever stop running
unless aborted.
 WHich means that the code for HHH is part of the input, and thus
there is just ONE HHH in existance at this time.
 Since that code aborts its simulation to return the answer that you
claim, you are just lying that it did a correct simulation (which in
this context means complete)
 
*none of them ever stop running unless aborted* *none of them ever
stop running unless aborted* *none of them ever stop running unless
aborted*
 Do you agree or can you refute THIS EXACT POINT?
Do you agree or can you refute THIS EXACT POINT?
Do you agree or can you refute THIS EXACT POINT?
  
How about the fact that if they abort, they never did a correct
simulation,
 *You are not addressing THE EXACT POINT*
 *When HHH never aborts any of the above functions then*
(a) None of the functions ever stops running.
(b) Each of the above functions stops running anyway.
 You need to be clear that you are not making a claim about general
undecidability but a claim about the SPECIFIC CASE of pathological self
reference present in the classic Halting Problem definition .. the trolls
here (especially Damon and Mikko) like to ignore that you are doing that.
 He is not doing even that. What he is doing is totally outside of the
scope of the halting problem. He has already verified that DDD halts
and that HHH does not report that DDD halts. Nothing else is relevant
in context of the halting problem.
 If his intent is to deceive he should avoid clarity at least as much
as he has recently done. His switch from "halting decider" to
"termination analyzer"
 is a more accurate term for what I am referring to.
 Not really as you are only talking about programs that do not take
any input. Termination analysis is about programs that do take input.
 Inputs are typical yet not required.
Ability to analyze (at least some) programs that take inputs is
required.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
17 Jun 25 * How do simulating termination analyzers work?181olcott
18 Jun 25 +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?176Richard Damon
18 Jun 25 i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?175olcott
18 Jun 25 i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?148Fred. Zwarts
18 Jun 25 i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?147olcott
18 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6joes
18 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5olcott
18 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3joes
18 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?15Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?14olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?7Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i i +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
20 Jun 25 i i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i   +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i i   `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6Richard Damon
20 Jun 25 i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i     `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?19Mikko
19 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?18olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?16Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i i i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i ii`- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?13Mikko
20 Jun 25 i i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?12olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i  +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
21 Jun 25 i i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?10Mikko
21 Jun 25 i i i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?9olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i    +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?7Mikko
22 Jun 25 i i i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6olcott
23 Jun 25 i i i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5Mikko
23 Jun 25 i i i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4olcott
24 Jun 25 i i i i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3Mikko
24 Jun 25 i i i i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
25 Jun 25 i i i i          `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Mikko
20 Jun 25 i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?106Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?105olcott
20 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?104Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?103olcott
21 Jun 25 i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
21 Jun 25 i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?101Mikko
21 Jun 25 i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?100olcott
21 Jun 25 i i       +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i       +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?93Mikko
22 Jun 25 i i       i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?92olcott
23 Jun 25 i i       i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?91Mikko
23 Jun 25 i i       i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?90olcott
24 Jun 25 i i       i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?89Mikko
24 Jun 25 i i       i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?88olcott
25 Jun 25 i i       i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?87Mikko
26 Jun 25 i i       i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism86Mikko
28 Jun 25 i i       i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism85olcott
28 Jun 25 i i       i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism84Mikko
28 Jun 25 i i       i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism83olcott
29 Jun 25 i i       i          `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism82Mikko
29 Jun 25 i i       i           `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism81olcott
30 Jun 25 i i       i            `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism80olcott
1 Jul 25 i i       i             `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism79Mikko
1 Jul 25 i i       i              `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism78olcott
2 Jul 25 i i       i               `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism77Mikko
3 Jul 25 i i       i                `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism76olcott
3 Jul 25 i i       i                 +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism1Richard Damon
4 Jul 25 i i       i                 +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism58Mikko
4 Jul 25 i i       i                 i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism57olcott
4 Jul 25 i i       i                 i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism52joes
4 Jul 25 i i       i                 i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE51olcott
5 Jul 25 i i       i                 i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE50Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul 25 i i       i                 i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE49olcott
5 Jul 25 i i       i                 i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE48Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul 25 i i       i                 i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE47olcott
6 Jul10:50 i i       i                 i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul11:16 i i       i                 i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE45Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul15:28 i i       i                 i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE44olcott
6 Jul17:02 i i       i                 i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE43Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul17:43 i i       i                 i i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE42olcott
6 Jul18:52 i i       i                 i i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE41Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul20:14 i i       i                 i i          `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE40olcott
6 Jul22:23 i i       i                 i i           `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE39Alan Mackenzie
7 Jul04:07 i i       i                 i i            `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE38olcott
7 Jul08:49 i i       i                 i i             +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE35Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul19:40 i i       i                 i i             i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE34olcott
7 Jul23:34 i i       i                 i i             i +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:22 i i       i                 i i             i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE32Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:33 i i       i                 i i             i  +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE9olcott
9 Jul09:26 i i       i                 i i             i  i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE4Mikko
9 Jul13:26 i i       i                 i i             i  ii`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE3olcott
10 Jul09:48 i i       i                 i i             i  ii +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Mikko
10 Jul12:30 i i       i                 i i             i  ii `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
9 Jul09:53 i i       i                 i i             i  i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE3Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul13:56 i i       i                 i i             i  ii`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE2olcott
10 Jul12:27 i i       i                 i i             i  ii `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul12:20 i i       i                 i i             i  i`- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
8 Jul16:03 i i       i                 i i             i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE22olcott
7 Jul15:07 i i       i                 i i             `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE2Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul 25 i i       i                 i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism4Mikko
4 Jul 25 i i       i                 `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism16joes
29 Jun 25 i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5Mikko
18 Jun 25 i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?26Richard Damon
18 Jun 25 +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Mikko
19 Jun 25 `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3Mikko

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