Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism
De : noreply (at) *nospam* example.org (joes)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 04. Jul 2025, 14:33:07
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <66c00d5703907e846f537310dfb201485e1b7b2a@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
User-Agent : Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a git.gnome.org/pan2)
Am Fri, 04 Jul 2025 07:34:39 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/4/2025 2:25 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-07-03 22:11:45 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/2/2025 1:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-07-01 11:46:11 +0000, olcott said:

It is relevant to the halting problem because no input to a halt
decider can possibly do the opposite of whatever its halt decider
decides.
Only because it is not simulated.

Although it is called a description that term is inaccurate.
It leads people to believe that 98% of exactly what it does is close
enough. That DD() *DOES NOT DO* what DD correctly simulated by HHH
does is a key detail *THAT ALWAYS ESCAPES THEM*
What HHH correctly or otherwise simulates is merely an implementation
detail.
It is a detail that defines a partial halt decider that makes the "do
the opposite" code unreachable.
Sounds like a bug.

What matters is the beahviour DD specifies.
The behavior that an input specifies is only correctly measured by
correctly simulating this input.
No, what code does when executed. Nobody cares what any random simulator
does, especially when it is known that no simulator can simulate past
a call to itself. That would make all programs the same when you prefix
them with that call.

It is actually has 100% of all of the details that the machine code of
DD has. The input to HHH(DD) *SPECIFIES*
100% of every detail of the exactly behavior *OF THIS INPUT*
In particular, it specifies whether the direct execution of DD halts or
not.
Partial halt deciders only compute the mapping from their inputs to the
actual behavior that this input actually specifies.
Which HHH doesn't do.

A halt decider cannot compute the mapping from its own caller or its own
self. That is just not the way that computation fundamentally works.
Nor does it need to, it gets the code of its caller and itself as input.

 Other aspects of the behaivour are not relevant
(but are specified anyway).

DDD simulated by HHH according to the actual semantics of the C
programming language GETS STUCK IN RECURSIVE SIMULATION.
That is why simulation alone does not solve the halting problem.
I have never been trying to solve the halting problem.
Oh goodie.

That requires a computer program that is omniscient.
Calculating the parity of a number also does.

All that I have done is refute the conventional halting problem proof
technique. Once this is accepted as correct I will move on to the next
best proof after that.
Which one is that? And what is your goal if not refuting the halting
theorem?

--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
17 Jun 25 * How do simulating termination analyzers work?166olcott
18 Jun 25 +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?161Richard Damon
18 Jun 25 i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?160olcott
18 Jun 25 i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?133Fred. Zwarts
18 Jun 25 i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?132olcott
18 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6joes
18 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5olcott
18 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3joes
18 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?15Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?14olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?7Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i i +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
20 Jun 25 i i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i   +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i i   `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6Richard Damon
20 Jun 25 i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i     `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?19Mikko
19 Jun 25 i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?18olcott
19 Jun 25 i i i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?16Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i i i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
20 Jun 25 i i i ii`- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?13Mikko
20 Jun 25 i i i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?12olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i  +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
21 Jun 25 i i i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?10Mikko
21 Jun 25 i i i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?9olcott
21 Jun 25 i i i i    +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?7Mikko
22 Jun 25 i i i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?6olcott
23 Jun 25 i i i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5Mikko
23 Jun 25 i i i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?4olcott
24 Jun 25 i i i i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3Mikko
24 Jun 25 i i i i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?2olcott
25 Jun 25 i i i i          `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Mikko
20 Jun 25 i i i `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25 i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?91Fred. Zwarts
19 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?90olcott
20 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?89Fred. Zwarts
20 Jun 25 i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?88olcott
21 Jun 25 i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
21 Jun 25 i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?86Mikko
21 Jun 25 i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?85olcott
21 Jun 25 i i       +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Richard Damon
22 Jun 25 i i       +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?78Mikko
22 Jun 25 i i       i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?77olcott
23 Jun 25 i i       i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?76Mikko
23 Jun 25 i i       i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?75olcott
24 Jun 25 i i       i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?74Mikko
24 Jun 25 i i       i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?73olcott
25 Jun 25 i i       i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?72Mikko
26 Jun 25 i i       i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism71Mikko
28 Jun 25 i i       i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism70olcott
28 Jun 25 i i       i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism69Mikko
28 Jun 25 i i       i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism68olcott
29 Jun 25 i i       i          `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism67Mikko
29 Jun 25 i i       i           `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism66olcott
30 Jun 25 i i       i            `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism65olcott
1 Jul 25 i i       i             `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism64Mikko
1 Jul 25 i i       i              `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism63olcott
2 Jul 25 i i       i               `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism62Mikko
3 Jul 25 i i       i                `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism61olcott
3 Jul 25 i i       i                 +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism1Richard Damon
4 Jul08:25 i i       i                 +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism43Mikko
4 Jul13:34 i i       i                 i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism42olcott
4 Jul14:33 i i       i                 i +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism37joes
4 Jul18:19 i i       i                 i i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE36olcott
5 Jul13:26 i i       i                 i i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE35Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul16:00 i i       i                 i i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE34olcott
5 Jul20:07 i i       i                 i i   `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE33Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul20:34 i i       i                 i i    `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE32olcott
6 Jul10:50 i i       i                 i i     +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul11:16 i i       i                 i i     `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE30Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul15:28 i i       i                 i i      `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE29olcott
6 Jul17:02 i i       i                 i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE28Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul17:43 i i       i                 i i        `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE27olcott
6 Jul18:52 i i       i                 i i         `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE26Alan Mackenzie
6 Jul20:14 i i       i                 i i          `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE25olcott
6 Jul22:23 i i       i                 i i           `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE24Alan Mackenzie
7 Jul04:07 i i       i                 i i            `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE23olcott
7 Jul08:49 i i       i                 i i             +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE20Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul19:40 i i       i                 i i             i`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE19olcott
7 Jul23:34 i i       i                 i i             i +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:22 i i       i                 i i             i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE17Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:33 i i       i                 i i             i  +* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE9olcott
9 Jul09:26 i i       i                 i i             i  i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE4Mikko
9 Jul13:26 i i       i                 i i             i  ii`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE3olcott
10 Jul09:48 i i       i                 i i             i  ii +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Mikko
10 Jul12:30 i i       i                 i i             i  ii `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
9 Jul09:53 i i       i                 i i             i  i+* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE3Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul13:56 i i       i                 i i             i  ii`* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE2olcott
10 Jul12:27 i i       i                 i i             i  ii `- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul12:20 i i       i                 i i             i  i`- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE1Richard Damon
8 Jul16:03 i i       i                 i i             i  `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE7olcott
7 Jul15:07 i i       i                 i i             `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism FULL_TRACE2Alan Mackenzie
5 Jul09:32 i i       i                 i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism4Mikko
4 Jul09:55 i i       i                 `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker Maximalism16joes
29 Jun 25 i i       `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?5Mikko
18 Jun 25 i `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?26Richard Damon
18 Jun 25 +- Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?1Mikko
19 Jun 25 `* Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work?3Mikko

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal