Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--

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Sujet : Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--
De : Keith.S.Thompson+u (at) *nospam* gmail.com (Keith Thompson)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 29. Mar 2024, 05:36:22
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olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
It seems dead obvious that 0.999... is infinitesimally less than 1.0.

Yes, it *seems* dead obvious.  That doesn't make it true, and in fact it
isn't.

0.999... denotes a *limit*.  In particular, it's the limit of the value
as the number of 9s increases without bound.  That's what the notation
"0.999..." *means*.  (There are more precise notations for the same
thing, such as "0.9̅" (that's a 9 with an overbar, or "vinculum") or
"0.(9)".

You have a sequence of numbers:

    0.9
    0.99
    0.999
    0.9999
    0.99999
    ...

Each member of that sequence is strictly less than 1.0, but the *limit*
is exactly 1.0.  The limit of a sequence doesn't have to be a member of
the sequence.  The limit is, informally, the value that members of the
sequence approach arbitrarily closely.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_of_a_sequence>

That we can say this in English yet not say this in conventional
number systems proves the need for another number system that can
say this.

Then I have good news for you.  There are several such systems, for
example <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreal_number>.

If your point is that you personally like hyperreals better than you
like reals, that's fine, as long as you're clear which number system
you're using.  If you talk about things like "0.999..." without
qualification, everyone will assume you're talking about real numbers.

And if you're going to play with hyperreal numbers, or surreal numbers,
or any of a number of other extensions to the real numbers, I suggest
that understanding the real numbers is a necessary prerequisite.  That
includes understanding that no real number is either infinitesimal or
infinite.

Disclaimer: I'm not a mathematician.  I welcome corrections.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 Mar 24 * Definition of real number ℝ167wij
28 Mar 24 `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ166Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ4wij
28 Mar 24  i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ3Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ2wij
28 Mar 24  i  `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ1Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ161Andy Walker
28 Mar 24   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--160olcott
28 Mar 24    +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6olcott
28 Mar 24    i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2wij
29 Mar 24    i i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
29 Mar 24    i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Andy Walker
29 Mar 24    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--152Richard Damon
29 Mar 24     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--151olcott
29 Mar 24      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--150Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--148olcott
29 Mar 24       i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--146Keith Thompson
29 Mar 24       i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--145olcott
29 Mar 24       i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--10Keith Thompson
29 Mar 24       i  i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--8olcott
29 Mar 24       i  ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Andy Walker
29 Mar 24       i  ii `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6olcott
29 Mar 24       i  ii  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i  ii   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3wij
29 Mar 24       i  ii   i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij
29 Mar 24       i  ii   i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i  ii   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
29 Mar 24       i  i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--134Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--133olcott
29 Mar 24       i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--132Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i     +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
30 Mar 24       i     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--130Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--129olcott
30 Mar 24       i       +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--125Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       ii`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Ross Finlayson
30 Mar 24       i       i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--122olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--4olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3André G. Isaak
30 Mar 24       i       i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--113Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--112olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--4wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i     `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--103Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--102olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--101Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i      +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--98olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--97Fred. Zwarts
31 Mar 24       i       i      i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--96olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--94Fred. Zwarts
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--93olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  i +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--91Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--90olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--88Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--87olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--57Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--56olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--14André G. Isaak
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6André G. Isaak
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2Ben Bacarisse
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--40Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--36olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--34Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--33olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--31Fred. Zwarts
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--30olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--28Fred. Zwarts
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--26Keith Thompson
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--19olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6Mike Terry
4 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Mike Terry
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--28Keith Thompson
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Andy Walker
29 Mar 24       `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij

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