Definition of real number ℝ

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Sujet : Definition of real number ℝ
De : wyniijj5 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (wij)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 28. Mar 2024, 14:29:24
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This updated file should solve most doubts I encountered. Hope, useful to you
(of course, not in official exam if that is your 'real')
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cscall/files/MisFiles/RealNumber-en.txt/download

+-------------+
| Real Number | ('computational' may be added to modify terms used in this file
+-------------+   if needed)

n-ary Fixed-Point Number::= Number represented by a string of digits, the
   string may contain a minus sign or a point:

     <fixed_point_number>::= [-] <dstr1> [ . <dstr2> ]
     <dstr1>::= 0 | <nzd> { 0, <nzd> }
     <dstr2>::= { 0, <nzd> } <nzd>
     <nzd> ::= (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)  // 'digit' varys depending on n-ary

   Two n-ary fixed-point number (same n-ary) x,y are equal iff their
   <fixed_point_number> representation are identical.

Real Nunmber(ℝ)::= {x| x is finitely represented by n-ary <fixed_point_number>
   and those that cannot be finitely represented }

   Note: Numbers that is not finitely representable cannot all be explicitly
         defined, this is the property of real number based on discrete symbols
         (like quantum?). E.g.

         A= lim(n->∞) 1-3/10^n = 0.999...
         B= lim(n->∞) 1-2/2^n  = 0.999...
         C= lim(n->∞) 1-1/n    = 0.999...
         ...

         IOW, by repeatedly multiplying 0.999... with 10, you can only see 9,
         the structure of the rear end of 0.999... is not seen.

         Since <fixed_point_number> is very definitely real and infinity is
         involved, theories that composed of finite words cannot be too
         exclusive about such a ℝ. 'Completeness' is impossible.

   Note: This definition implies that repeating decimals are irrational number.
         Let's list a common magic proof in the way as a brief explanation:
           (1) x= 0.999...
           (2) 10x= 9+x  // 10x= 9.999...
           (3) 9x=9
           (4) x=1
         Ans: There is no axiom or theorem to prove (1) => (2).

   Note: To determine whether a repeating decimal x is rational or not, we can
         repeatedly subtract the repeating pattern p(i) from x.
         If x-p(1)-p(2)-...=0 can be verified in finite steps, then x is
         rational. Otherwise, x is irrational, because, if x is rational, the
         last remaining piece r(i)= x-p(1)-p(2)-... must exactly be the
         repeating pattern p(i). But, by definition of 'repeating', r(i) cannot
         be pattern p(i). Therefore, repeating decimal is irrational.

Real number is just this simple. The limit theory is a methodology for finding
derivative, nothing to do with what the real number is (otherwise, a definition
like the above must be defined in advance to avoid circular-reasoning).

+-------+
| Limit |
+-------+
Limit::=  lim(x->a) f(x)=L
    http://www.math.ntu.edu.tw/~mathcal/download/precal/PPT/Chapter%2002_04..pdf
    http://www.math.ncu.edu.tw/~yu/ecocal98/boards/lec6_ec_98.pdf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_(mathematics)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_of_a_function

    L is defined as the limit (a number) while x approaches a (f(a) may not
    be defined, although, while f is continuous, L=f(a)). L is a defined value,
    not "if something infinitely close ... then equal" (no such logic).

    Ex1: A= lim(n->∞) 1-1/n= lim(n->0⁺) 1-n= lim 0.999...=1
         B= lim(n->∞) 1+1/n= lim(n->0⁺) 1+n= lim 1.000..?=1

    Ex2: A=lim(x->ℵ₀) f(x), B=lim(x->ℵ₁) f(x)  // ℵ₀,ℵ₁ being proper or not is
                                         // another issue here. But problematic
                                         // for "finally equal" interpretation.

    Limit defines A=B, does not mean the contents of the limit are equal. If the
    "x approaches..., then equal" notion is adopted, lots of logical issues arise.

    Note: The equation of limit may be questionable
          lim(x->c) (f(x)*g(x))= (lim(x->c) f(x))*(lim(x->c) g(x)):

          Let A=lim(n->∞) (1-1/n)= 1
          A*A*..*A= ... = lim(n->∞) (1-1/n)^n    // 1=1/e ?

+--------------------------------------+
| Restoring Interpretation of Calculus |
+--------------------------------------+
http://www.math.ntu.edu.tw/~mathcal/download/precal/PPT/Chapter%2002_08.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative

Assume calculus is basically the area problem of a function: Let F compute the
the area of f. From the meaning of area, we can have:

    (F(x+h)-F(x)) ≒ (f(x+h)+f(x))*(h/2)  // h is a sufficiently small (test)offset
<=> (F(x+h)-F(x))/h ≒ (f(x+h)+f(x))/2    // the limit(h->0) of rhs is f(x)

Expected property of F: (1)Error |lhs-rhs| strictly decreases with the tiny
    (test) offset h (2)When h=0, lhs=rhs.
    Because the h in the lhs cannot be 0, the basic problem of calculus is
    finding such a F (or f) that satisfies the expected porperty above...Thus,

    D(f(x))= lim(h->0) (F(x+h)-F(x))/h = f(x)

    Note: Hope that this interpretation can avoid the interpretation of infinity
          /infinitesimal, and provide more correct foundation for some theories
          , e.g. Zeno paradoxes, repeating decimal,...,and more (exponiential,
          Cantor set, infinite series...).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 Mar 24 * Definition of real number ℝ167wij
28 Mar 24 `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ166Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ4wij
28 Mar 24  i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ3Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ2wij
28 Mar 24  i  `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ1Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 24  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ161Andy Walker
28 Mar 24   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--160olcott
28 Mar 24    +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6olcott
28 Mar 24    i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2wij
29 Mar 24    i i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Andy Walker
28 Mar 24    i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
29 Mar 24    i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Andy Walker
29 Mar 24    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--152Richard Damon
29 Mar 24     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--151olcott
29 Mar 24      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--150Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--148olcott
29 Mar 24       i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--146Keith Thompson
29 Mar 24       i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--145olcott
29 Mar 24       i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--10Keith Thompson
29 Mar 24       i  i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--8olcott
29 Mar 24       i  ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Andy Walker
29 Mar 24       i  ii `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6olcott
29 Mar 24       i  ii  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i  ii   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3wij
29 Mar 24       i  ii   i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij
29 Mar 24       i  ii   i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i  ii   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
29 Mar 24       i  i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--134Richard Damon
29 Mar 24       i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--133olcott
29 Mar 24       i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--132Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 24       i     +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
30 Mar 24       i     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--130Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--129olcott
30 Mar 24       i       +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--125Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       ii`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Ross Finlayson
30 Mar 24       i       i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--122olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--4olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3André G. Isaak
30 Mar 24       i       i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24       i       i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--113Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--112olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--4wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2wij
30 Mar 24       i       i   i     `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i   +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i   `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--103Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i    `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--102olcott
30 Mar 24       i       i     `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--101Fred. Zwarts
30 Mar 24       i       i      +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--98olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--97Fred. Zwarts
31 Mar 24       i       i      i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--96olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--94Fred. Zwarts
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--93olcott
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  i +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--91Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--90olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--88Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--87olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--57Fred. Zwarts
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--56olcott
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--14André G. Isaak
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6André G. Isaak
1 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2Ben Bacarisse
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i ii `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--7olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--5olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--40Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--36olcott
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  i+* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--34Fred. Zwarts
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--33olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii +- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--31Fred. Zwarts
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--30olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--28Fred. Zwarts
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i+- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i`* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--26Keith Thompson
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--19olcott
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   i `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--6Mike Terry
4 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  ii   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
3 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  i`- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i i  `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Mike Terry
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i +* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--28Keith Thompson
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   i `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
2 Apr 24       i       i      i  i   `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
31 Mar 24       i       i      i  `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1Richard Damon
30 Mar 24       i       i      `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--2olcott
30 Mar 24       i       `* Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--3Andy Walker
29 Mar 24       `- Re: Definition of real number ℝ --infinitesimal--1wij

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