Re: I just fixed the loophole of the Gettier cases with mt new notion of {linguistic truth}

On 9/6/24 8:10 AM, olcott wrote:

On 9/6/2024 6:34 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 9/5/24 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:

On 9/5/2024 9:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 9/5/24 8:58 AM, olcott wrote:

On 9/5/2024 2:20 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-03 13:03:51 +0000, olcott said:
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On 9/3/2024 3:39 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-02 13:33:36 +0000, olcott said:
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On 9/1/2024 5:58 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-01 03:04:43 +0000, olcott said:
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*I just fixed the loophole of the Gettier cases*
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knowledge is a justified true belief such that the
justification is sufficient reason to accept the
truth of the belief.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem

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The remaining loophole is the lack of an exact definition
of "sufficient reason".
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Ultimately sufficient reason is correct semantic
entailment from verified facts.

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The problem is "verified" facts: what is sufficient verification?
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Stipulated to be true is always sufficient:
Cats are a know if animal.

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Insufficient for practtical purposes. You may stipulate that
nitroglycerine is not poison but it can kill you anyway.
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The point is that <is> the way the linguistic truth actually works.
Millions of these stipulated relations in a knowledge hierarchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
comprise human knowledge expressed in language.
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Stipulated relations are like the Prolog Facts. Truth preserving
operations are like the Prolog Rules. Anything unprovable by
Facts and Rules in the system is untrue in the system.
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Self-contradictory expressions are rejected as not truth bearers
instead of categorized as undecidable propositions.

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Which just shows you don't even understand the problem that Gettier was pointing out. It isn't "bad logic", it is knowing you have a correct interpretation of your observations.
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Your problem is it is impossible to determine "sufficient verification".
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It was a justified true belief (all three were stipulated)
except the justification had a loophole allowing it to be
insufficient justification under Gettier.

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And the problem is you can't just "define away" that insufficiency.
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Your problem is you just don't know enough to see the problem, and thus assume there isn't one, which is EXACTLY the sort of thing Gettier was pointing out. One of the examples was deducing there was a fire because they saw smoke, but the "smoke" was just a cloud of insects, and not smoke, attracted to the fire that wasn't creating smoke.
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The justification was incorrect, so should we call that knowledge of fire, and if someone can be convinced they "know" something, when they don't, were they correct in calling it "knowledge", and if we can't actually know that we know something, do we even know it, even if it might be true?
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Just like it is stipulated to be true, it is now stipulated
to be "sufficient justification". The strongest justification
is a necessary consequence from stipulated truths.

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No, you are just showing your ignorance for the words or what the problem is.
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It is not "stipulated" that knowledge is true, it is a definitional requirement. And the problem that Gettier was talking about is that we can't be certain our interpretation of our observation is correct, so we can't be sure our reaso
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*The simplest example of this is the syllogism*
Major premise: All humans are mortal.
Minor premise: All Greeks are humans.
Conclusion/Consequent: All Greeks are mortal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism#Basic_structure

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Which, since it has no "observations" in it, doesn't talk about the issue here.
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 It provides a concrete example of sufficient justification thus
conclusively proving the sufficient justification exists.

Nope, just that you don't understand the logic you are talking about.
Gettier isn't talking about "Analytic Truth" which is a truth based on the defined definitions, but on Knowledge based on observation, i.e emperical knowledge.

 

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Other justifications would be less certain
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/
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Which seems to mean that you are just trying to define away the problem by ignoring it.

 A justified true belief is impossibly false because it is stipulated
to only apply to true beliefs.

And that is the problem, you can't TELL if it is a justified true belief, so you can't tell if it is actually knowledge.

 

Gettier is talking about knowledge that comes from observations, and the fact that it seems impossible to determine if we are "correctly interpreting" or observations of the world.
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 Suppose that Smith and Jones have applied for a certain job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem#Case_I
Sufficient evidence that Smith got the job would be the boss
tells Smith he got the job.

Nope, The boss might have lied.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem#Case_II
Smith knows that Brown really is in Barcelona on the
sufficient basis that Smith travels to Barcelona and
sees Brown in Barcelona.

But the case described, he didn't, so not applicable.
All you are doing is proving that you belie that lying abot the problem is aceptable.

 

Thus, the question of can we actually have empirical knowledge?
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 We can look at out left hand and although it looks feels
and acts like a left hand it is really a fifteen story
office building?

Sure. You never heard of the brains in bottles conjecture?
That imagines that the world we perceive is nothing but signals generated to our neural interfaces and we are nothing more than a brain in a bottle imagining everything that goes on around us.
That is a conjecture that is impossible to prove or disprove by its nature.

 

You are just showing your short sightedness by pontificating about things you do not understand.