Re: True on the basis of meaning

On 2024-05-12 17:19:48 +0000, olcott said:

On 5/12/2024 10:33 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-05-12 14:22:25 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 5/12/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-05-11 04:27:03 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 5/10/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 5/10/24 11:35 PM, olcott wrote:

On 5/10/2024 10:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 5/10/24 10:36 PM, olcott wrote:

The entire body of expressions that are {true on the basis of their
meaning} involves nothing more or less than stipulated relations between
finite strings.
 

 You do know that what you are describing when applied to Formal Systems are the axioms of the system and the most primitively provable theorems.
 

 YES and there are axioms that comprise the verbal model of the
actual world, thus Quine was wrong.

 You don't understand what Quite was talking about,
 

 I don't need to know anything about what he was talking about
except that he disagreed with {true on the basis or meaning}.
I don't care or need to know how he got to an incorrect answer.
 

 

 You don't seem to understand what "Formal Logic" actually means.
 

 Ultimately it is anchored in stipulated relations between finite
strings (AKA axioms) and expressions derived from applying truth
preserving operations to these axioms.

 Which you don't seem to understand what that means.
 

 I understand this much more deeply than you do.

 In and about formal logic there is no valid deep understanding. Only
a shallow understanding can be valid.
 

 It turns out that ALL {true on the basis of meaning} that includes
ALL of logic and math has its entire foundation in relations between
finite strings. Some are stipulated to be true (axioms) and some
are derived by applying truth preserving operations to these axioms.

 Usually the word "true" is not used when talking about uninterpreted
formal systems. Axioms and what can be inferred from axioms are called
"theorems". Theorems can be true in some interpretations and false in
another. If the system is incosistent then there is no interpretation
where all axioms are true.
 

 I am not talking about how these things are usually spoken of. I am
talking about my unique contribution to the actual philosophical
foundation of {true on the basis of meaning}.

What matters is that you are not talking about those things as they
are usually spoken of. The consequence is that nobody is going to
understand you, and the consequence of that probably is that you
cannot contribute.

This is entirely comprised of relations between finite strings:
some of which are stipulated to have the semantic value of Boolean
true, and others derived from applying truth preserving operations
to these finite string.

Most of that doesn't require any stipulations about semantics but
can be done with finite strings and their relations. Semantics is
only needed to choose interesting problems and, if a problem can
be solved, to interprete the solution.

This is approximately equivalent to proofs from axioms.

It shouod be exactly equivalent.

It is not exactly the same thing because an infinite sequence of
inference steps may sometimes be required.

Infinite sequences create more problem than they solve. For example,
you can prove that 1 = 2 with the infinite sequence
   1, 1, 1, ..., 2, 2, 2
where every element (except the first one) is equal to preceding element
so by transitivity every element should be equal to the first one.

It is also not exactly the same because some proofs are not restricted
to truth preserving operations.

A sequence of inferences that can derive a false conclusion from true
premises should not be called a "proof".
--
Mikko