Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2

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Sujet : Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 15. Jul 2024, 14:23:57
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v734ct$mjis$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/15/2024 3:59 AM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 14 Jul 2024 22:35:03 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/14/2024 10:02 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
On 15/07/2024 01:20, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:55 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/14/2024 3:29 AM, joes wrote:
Am Sat, 13 Jul 2024 18:33:53 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/13/2024 6:26 PM, joes wrote:
 
[0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call
HHH(DDD) Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation
Stopped
How is this detected?
PO seems not to want to answer you, as I notice you've asked this
question more than once and PO dodges a direct response, so I'll try.
(Alternatively, PO has provided a link to his source code in the past,
so if you can find that link you can just look the answer yourself -
the functions are all in his halt7.c file, which is compiled but not
linked, then the obj file is interpreted within his x86utm.exe (source
also given in the link.  The link might not reflect his current code??)
Thank you. I didn't bother digging through their code, and they refused
to give the abortion criterion.
 
HHH [outer HHH only!] examines a global trace table of simulated
instruction (from all simulation levels merged together).  The
particular message "Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped"
seems to be issued when:
-  last instruction is a CALL -  working backwards through the merged
trace table, another CALL is encountered -  ..which is issued at the
same address -  ..and is calling to the same address -  ..and no
"conditional branch" instructions occur in the trace table
       between the two call instructions
>
KEY TO NOT BEING MISLED BY THE ABOVE:
>
0. The "Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped" message is just
a printf.
     It does not prove that /actual/ infinite recursion was detected -
     on the contrary,
     all here but PO realise that the recursion detected is just
     finite recursion.
>
1. The trace table being examined is NOT an x86 processor trace - it is
a "merged simulation trace" containing entries for ALL SIMULATION
     LEVELS.
     So the two CALL instructions are not referring to one single x86
processor.
When emulated DDD calls HHH(DDD) the outer HHH emulates itself emulating
DDD.
I think that joes does not understand these things.
 
     Typically, the last call instruction is from a deeper nested
     simulation than the earlier detected call instruction.  The outer
     simulations are all
     still running, but do not appear in the trace table or logs
presented by PO due to the next note.
>
2. The searched trace table is filtered to only contain instructions
within the C function D/DD/DDD/.. !!
     YES, YOU READ THAT RIGHT!  ALL CODE IN HHH IS TOTALLY IGNORED,
INCLUDING
     THE CONDITIONAL BRANCH INSTRUCTIONS THAT ARE TESTING THE VERY
     ABORT TESTS THAT CAUSE OUTER HHH TO ABORT.
>
3. Inner HHH's do not perform the same tests as above, because they
inspect a global
     variable which tells them they are inner HHH's.  Yeah, that means
the simulation
     is completely broken logically... [but... the outer HHH will
     abort first, so
     PO might argue the outcome will be the same, even though
     logically it is broken...]
Ah, and here I believed them when they said they had rewritten it.
 
  > Is it also triggered when calling a function in a loop?
Not sure what you mean.  Calling a function in a loop ends if the loop
ends, right?  What loop are you thinking of?
Anyhow, provided the call instructions are physically located in
function D() [i.e. not H() or something called from H] I guess it would
match.  But the C function D has only one call instruction, which isn't
in a loop!
I wondered about just calling the same function repeatedly with the same
parameters (on the same simulation level).
 
Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of
simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies non-halting
behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
It's just that the input HHH halts and does not need to be aborted.
 
At the point that it is aborted it did need to be aborted
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
12 Jul 24 * DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V2214olcott
12 Jul 24 +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INcorrectly rejected as non-halting V2186Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2185olcott
13 Jul 24 i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24joes
13 Jul 24 i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23olcott
13 Jul 24 i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 i i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2177Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2176olcott
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2171Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2170olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V215Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V214olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V213Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V212olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V211Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V210olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V29Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V28olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i          `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i           `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i            `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i             `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2147joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2146olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2144joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2143olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2141joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2140olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2138joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2137olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2135joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2134olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2125joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V228olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii+- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V226joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V225olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V222Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V221olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V219Mikko
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V218olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V210Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V29olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i i`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii          `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V296Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V295olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V286joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V282olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V280joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V279olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V276joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V275olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V273joes
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V272olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V269joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V268olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V267Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V266olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V265Mikko
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V264olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V262Mikko
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V261olcott
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
22 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V258Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
14 Jul 24 i   i i     `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V22Mikko
14 Jul 24 `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V224Mikko

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