Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine

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Sujet : Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 22. Jul 2024, 10:26:52
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <v7l54c$indv$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2024-07-21 13:58:56 +0000, olcott said:

On 7/21/2024 4:52 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-20 13:03:50 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 7/20/2024 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-19 14:18:05 +0000, olcott said:
 
When a Self-Modifying Turing Machine can change itself to become
any other Turing Machine then it can eliminate the pathological
relationship to its input.
 It never was a Turing machine.
 
 A self modifying TM is merely a TM description that is
simulated by a UTM and has access to itself on the UTM
tape.
 No, it is not.
 I invented it thus that is the specification of my invention.
The term "Turing machine" is already reserved and your "invention"
is not one of the machines that are called "Turing macnines".
Besides, you have not shown the "invention" so there is no
basis to claim that you have invented anything.

A TM description describes a TM that does not change itself.
 X is not typically understood to do Y therefore it is
impossible for X to do Y is incorrect reasoning.
That is a different situation. If someting is not understood one can be
wrong about it. But even a very superficial understanding of Turing
machines suffices for determination that a machine that modifis itself
is not a Turing machine.

That you fail to understand that an emulated x86 program can
modify itself to change its own behavior as long as it knows
its own machine address is merely ignorance on your part.
Your false claim about my understanding reveals that you are a liar.
Thank you, but we already knew.

When a simulated Turing Machine Description is provided
access to itself on the UTM tape it can do the same thing.
Rigid minded people incorrectly conflate unconventional
for impossible.
It is not a Turing machine desription if it describes a self-modification.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
13 Jul 24 * Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?172olcott
13 Jul 24 +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?170Mikko
14 Jul 24  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?169olcott
14 Jul 24   +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?154Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?153olcott
15 Jul 24   i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?152Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?151olcott
15 Jul 24   i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?150Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?149olcott
15 Jul 24   i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?148Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?111olcott
15 Jul 24   i      i+* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      ii`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
15 Jul 24   i      ii +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24   i      ii `- OLCOTT ADMITS TO LYING1Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      i+* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?48Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24   i      ii`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?47olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii +- OLCOTT ADMITS TO LYING FOR YEARS1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?40olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?39Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?38olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1joes
17 Jul 24   i      ii i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      ii i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?35Mikko
17 Jul 24   i      ii i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?34olcott
18 Jul 24   i      ii i    +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      ii i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?32Mikko
19 Jul 24   i      ii i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine31olcott
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine9joes
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine8olcott
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine6André G. Isaak
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine5olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine3André G. Isaak
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i     `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine20Mikko
20 Jul 24   i      ii i       `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine19olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        +* Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine3joes
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        i`* Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        i `- Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
21 Jul 24   i      ii i        `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine14Mikko
21 Jul 24   i      ii i         `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine13olcott
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine2joes
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          i`- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
22 Jul 24   i      ii i          `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine9Mikko
22 Jul 24   i      ii i           `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine8olcott
23 Jul 24   i      ii i            `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine7Mikko
23 Jul 24   i      ii i             `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine6olcott
24 Jul 24   i      ii i              +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
25 Jul 24   i      ii i              `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine4Mikko
25 Jul 24   i      ii i               `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine3olcott
26 Jul 24   i      ii i                +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
26 Jul 24   i      ii i                `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Mikko
16 Jul 24   i      ii `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?5Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24   i      ii  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      ii   `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?58Mikko
16 Jul 24   i      i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?57olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?55Mikko
17 Jul 24   i      i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?54olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?26Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      i    i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?25olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?23Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?22olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1joes
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?19Fred. Zwarts
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?18olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?7Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?6olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i   `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?10Mikko
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?9olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i     +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue3olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3Mikko
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i       `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Fred. Zwarts
18 Jul 24   i      i    i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      i    +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?21joes
17 Jul 24   i      i    i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?20olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?18joes
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?17olcott
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?16joes
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?15olcott
18 Jul 24   i      i    i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
18 Jul 24   i      i    +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?5Mikko
15 Jul 24   i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?36olcott
15 Jul 24   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?14Mikko

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