embedded_H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ computes the mapping from its input to Ĥ.qn

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : embedded_H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ computes the mapping from its input to Ĥ.qn
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 30. Jul 2024, 16:16:20
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v8asjm$12hr3$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/30/2024 1:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-29 16:16:13 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 7/28/2024 3:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-27 14:08:10 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 7/27/2024 2:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-26 14:08:11 +0000, olcott said:
>
When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>
>
The above is merely simplified syntax for the top of page 3
https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
The above is the whole original Linz proof.
>
And even more simplified semantics.
>
(a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
(b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(d) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
(e) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ invokes simulated embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(f) simulated embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(g) goto (d) with one more level of simulation
>
You are supposed to evaluate the above as a contiguous
sequence of moves such that non-halting behavior is
identified.
>
The above is an obvious tight loop of (d), (e), (f), and (g).
Its relevance (it any) to the topic of the discussion is not
obvious.
>
>
When we compute the mapping from the input to embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
to the behavior specified by this input we know that embedded_H
is correct to transition to Ĥ.qn.
 The meaning of "correct" in this context is that if the transition of
embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to Ĥ.qn is correct if H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ transitions to H.qn but
incorrect otherwise.
 
No you are wrong. This is a mistake that has persisted since the
beginning. An executing Turing machine is not allowed to report
on its own behavior. Every decider is only allowed to report on
the behavior that its finite string input specifies.
The only case where the correct UTM simulation of an input
to a simulating halt decider differs from the direct execution
of this same input is when a simulating halt decider simulates
an input that calls itself.
No one ever bothered to notice this before only because they
always rejected the notion of a simulating halt decider
out-of-hand without review.
Professor Hehner noticed that the conventional HP input to
its decider does specify non-halting behavior:
     From a programmer's point of view, if we apply an
     interpreter to a program text that includes a call
     to that same interpreter with that same text as
     argument, then we have an infinite loop. A halting
     program has some of the same character as an interpreter:
     it applies to texts through abstract interpretation.
     Unsurprisingly, if we apply a halting program to a program
     text that includes a call to that same halting program
     with that same text as argument, then we have an infinite
     loop. (Hehner:2011:15)
[5] E C R Hehner. Problems with the Halting Problem,
COMPUTING2011 Symposium on 75 years of Turing Machine and
Lambda-Calculus, Karlsruhe Germany, invited, 2011 October
20-21; Advances in Computer Science and Engineering
v.10 n.1 p.31-60, 2013
https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHP.pdf
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
12 Jul 24 * DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V2214olcott
12 Jul 24 +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INcorrectly rejected as non-halting V2186Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2185olcott
13 Jul 24 i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24joes
13 Jul 24 i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23olcott
13 Jul 24 i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 i i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2177Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2176olcott
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2171Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2170olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V215Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V214olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V213Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V212olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V211Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V210olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V29Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V28olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i          `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i           `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i            `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i             `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2147joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2146olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2144joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2143olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2141joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2140olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2138joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2137olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2135joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2134olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2125joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V228olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii+- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V226joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V225olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V222Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V221olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V219Mikko
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V218olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V210Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V29olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i i`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii          `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V296Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V295olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V286joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V282olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V280joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V279olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V276joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V275olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V273joes
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V272olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V269joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V268olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V267Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V266olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V265Mikko
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V264olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V262Mikko
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V261olcott
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
22 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V258Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
14 Jul 24 i   i i     `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V22Mikko
14 Jul 24 `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V224Mikko

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