Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong ---

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Sujet : Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong ---
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 02. Jun 2024, 19:53:54
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v3if43$3f51j$10@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32
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Op 02.jun.2024 om 20:42 schreef olcott:
On 6/2/2024 1:36 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 02.jun.2024 om 20:08 schreef olcott:
On 6/2/2024 12:55 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 02 Jun 2024 10:02:54 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 6/2/2024 4:36 AM, joes wrote:
Am Sat, 01 Jun 2024 17:37:28 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 6/1/2024 5:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 5:27 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/1/2024 4:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 4:35 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/1/2024 3:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 12:46 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/1/2024 11:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 12:18 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/1/2024 11:08 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 11:58 AM, olcott wrote:
On 6/1/2024 10:46 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/1/24 10:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>
Every DD correctly simulated by any HH of the infinite set of HH/DD
pairs that match the above template never reaches past its own
simulated line 03 in 1 to ∞ steps of correct simulation of DD by HH.
>
But since the simulation was aborted,
>
*The above never mentions anything about any simulation being aborted*
Not simulating an infinite number of steps of infinite recursion is
incorrect. You always forget this requirement: the simulation must be
complete.
>
When HH correctly simulates N steps of DD it is incorrect to say that
these N steps were incorrectly simulated.
The simulation is incorrect if it stops at that point and the simulated
machine is not in a final state, even if it was correct up to that point.
It also matters what steps where simulated, not only if each was correct.
>
>
Introduction to the Theory of Computation, by Michael Sipser
https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Theory-Computation-Michael-Sipser/dp/113318779X/
>
On 10/13/2022 11:29:23 AM
MIT Professor Michael Sipser agreed that this verbatim paragraph is correct
(He has neither reviewed nor agreed to anything else in this paper)
>
<Professor Sipser agreed>
If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never stop running unless aborted then
>
H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</Professor Sipser agreed>
>
>
What are the sets of HH and DD? I thought they were concrete machines.
>
The infinite set of every HH/DD pair where HH correctly simulates 1 or
more steps of DD is the infinite set that I am referring to.
I see only a single DD. All H that stop simulating D before it reaches a
final state are already wrong.
>
>
There are an infinite number of different HH/DD pairs specified by that
template. One class of them simulates N steps and one class of them
simulates ∞ steps. Some of them play a game of bingo before simulating
any steps. Some of them play a game of chess after simulating N steps.
>
*IN NONE OF THESE CASES DOES DD CORRECTLY SIMULATED BY HH HALT*
>
>
Similarly:
>
*IN NONE OF THESE CASES DOES HH CORRECTLY SIMULATED BY HH HALT*
>
 *That is NEVER WAS any requirement*
 
It was a requirement that HH would halt. A correct simulation of HH, therefore, should halt as well. It doesn't, which proves that either the simulation is wrong, or HH does not halt.
--
Paradoxes in the relation between Creator and creature.
<http://www.wirholt.nl/English>.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 May 24 * D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets360olcott
29 May 24 +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets307Richard Damon
29 May 24 i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets306olcott
29 May 24 i `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets305Richard Damon
29 May 24 i  `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets304olcott
29 May 24 i   +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets26Mikko
29 May 24 i   i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets25olcott
30 May 24 i   i `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets24Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i  `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets23olcott
30 May 24 i   i   `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets22Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i    `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets21olcott
30 May 24 i   i     `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets20Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i      `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets19olcott
30 May 24 i   i       `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets18Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i        `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets17olcott
30 May 24 i   i         `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets16Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i          `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets15olcott
30 May 24 i   i           `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets14Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i            `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets13olcott
30 May 24 i   i             `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets12Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i              `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets11olcott
30 May 24 i   i               +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets4joes
30 May 24 i   i               i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets3olcott
30 May 24 i   i               i +- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1immibis
31 May 24 i   i               i `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i               +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets5immibis
30 May 24 i   i               i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets4Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i               i `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets3Mikko
31 May 24 i   i               i  `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets2immibis
31 May 24 i   i               i   `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Mikko
30 May 24 i   i               `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
29 May 24 i   `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets277Richard Damon
29 May 24 i    `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets276olcott
29 May 24 i     +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets274Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i     i+* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets7olcott
29 May 24 i     ii+* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets5Mike Terry
29 May 24 i     iii+* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets2olcott
30 May 24 i     iiii`- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
29 May 24 i     iii`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets2olcott
30 May 24 i     iii `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     ii`- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
29 May 24 i     i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets266Ben Bacarisse
29 May 24 i     i `* Two dozen people were simply wrong265olcott
29 May 24 i     i  +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong4Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i     i  i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong3olcott
29 May 24 i     i  i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong2Python
29 May 24 i     i  i  `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1olcott
30 May 24 i     i  +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong (including Olcott)233Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise232olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise230Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise229olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise228Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise227olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise226Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise225olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise15Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i+* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     ii`- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise12olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise11Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise10olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise5Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise4olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i   i `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise3Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i   i  `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i     i   i   `- Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise4joes
30 May 24 i     i  i i     i    +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i     i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2Mikko
31 May 24 i     i  i i     i     `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- Mike Terry1olcott
30 May 24 i     i  i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise209Mikko
30 May 24 i     i  i i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise208olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise205Richard Damon
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise204olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise195Richard Damon
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise194olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise193Richard Damon
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise192olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise191Richard Damon
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise190olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise189Richard Damon
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down188olcott
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down187Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i        `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down186olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i         `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down185Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i          `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down184olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down182Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down181olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down111Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down110olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down108Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down107olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down105Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down104olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down103Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down102olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down92Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down91olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down13Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down12olcott
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down11Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down74Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2joes
2 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down9Mikko
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down50Wasell
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down16Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down3joes
1 Jun 24 i     i  i i       i i           `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
31 May 24 i     i  i i       i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise8Mikko
31 May 24 i     i  i i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2Mikko
30 May 24 i     i  i `- Re: H is an incorrect x86 emulator1immibis
30 May 24 i     i  +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1immibis
1 Jun 24 i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong26Mikko
30 May 24 i     `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
30 May 24 +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets --- deciders38olcott
31 May 24 `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets14Mikko

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