Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2

On 6/16/24 8:44 AM, olcott wrote:

On 6/16/2024 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-15 13:14:57 +0000, olcott said:
>

On 6/15/2024 7:19 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-15 03:07:14 +0000, olcott said:
>

On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes
 >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to
 >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by
 >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the
 >> behavior of the directly executed D(D)
 >>
 >
 > Why? I don't claim it can.
>
_D()
[00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
[00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
[00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
[00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
[00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
[00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
[00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
[00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
[00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
[00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
[00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
[00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
[00000d1d](01) c3          ret
Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
>
If there is no mapping from the input to H(D,D) to the behavior
of D(D) then H is not even being asked about the behavior of D(D).
H has no obligation to answer questions *THAT IT IS NOT BEING ASKED*

>
The halting problem specification does not say that a halt decider
can be asked questions.

>
*It assumes that you already know that*

>
What assumes? Why would it assume anything about me?
>

In computability theory and computational complexity theory, a
decision problem is a computational problem that can be posed
as a yes–no question of the input values.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_problem

>
That's true. But a decider cannot be asked a question.

 The input to a decider is isomorphic to a yes or no question.

No, it is the variable data to fill into the question.

 

Whenever a
decider is run it answers the question it is made to answer.

 Not necessarily. Just because everyone falsely assumes that D
correctly simulated by H must have the same behavior as the
directly executed D(D) does not make this false assumption true.

But what instruction, correctly simulated differed?
Your problem is you forget that your definition of "correctly simulated" means you must do the exact instructions in the exact order of the code, and thus you MUST simulate the call instruction, and then the instructions of H that the call goes to,
THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE DEFINED.
THAT ISN'T WHAT YOUR LIES SHOW.

 

 The
input to the decider is a part of the question but is not itself
a question.
>

 The combination of the input and the algorithm is the question.
H is only asked about the behavior of D correctly simulated by H
and is not asked about the behavior of the directly executed D(D).

Nope, Not if it is a Halt Decider. If it is a Halt Decider, it is being asked aobut the behavior of the actual machine described by the input.

 Just because everyone assumes that they must be the same does not
make this assumption correct.

But it is the DEFINITION.
You just LIE when you try to change definition.

 

However, every decision problem can be presented differently,
whithout posing a qeustion.
>

 That is incorrect. Also it must be a yes / no question.
If you ask a decider what it the value of 5 * 6, it stops
being a decider.
 

Nope, (sort of depends which part of the theory you are working in).
The basic defintion of a decider is:
In computability theory, a decider is a Turing machine that halts for every input. A decider is also called a total Turing machine as it represents a total function
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decider_(Turing_machine)
There is also a sub-category of these machines, called Language Deciders that determine if the input is part of a language or not, and these will only answer yes or no (or more formally accept or reject).
YOu seem to mistakenoly belive that is the only kind of decider that exist.
Likely because you are only rotely parroting things you never actually learned.