Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within

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Sujet : Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 27. Jul 2024, 21:01:13
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v83g5r$3gihn$3@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3
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Op 27.jul.2024 om 16:21 schreef olcott:
On 7/27/2024 2:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-26 16:28:43 +0000, olcott said:
>
No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the
computation that itself is contained within.
>
That claim is fully unjustified. How do you even define "accountable"
in the context of computations, automata, and deciders?
>
 int sum(int x, int y){ return x + y; }
sum(5,6) is not accountable for reporting sum(3,2).
It computes the mapping from its input to the value of their sum.
 HHH must compute the mapping from its input finite string
of the x86 machine code of DDD to the behavior that this
finite string specifies and then report on the halt status
of this behavior.
And the semantics of the x86 code shows that DDD has halting behaviour, which is proved by the direct execution and by the simulation by another simulator.

 The input to HHH(DDD) specifies the equivalent of infinite
recursion as fully elaborated in another reply.
The input to HHH is DDD, which includes HHH, which aborts and halts after two recursions, so DDD halts as well. Therefore, the input specifies a two cycle recursion, but HHH is unable to simulate it correctly, because
HHH cannot possibly simulate *itself* correctly, which has been proved in many replies.
Two is different from infinite. Is that already over your head?

Date Sujet#  Auteur
26 Jul 24 * No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within45olcott
26 Jul 24 +* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within6olcott
26 Jul 24 i+* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within3olcott
27 Jul 24 ii+- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within (unless that is its input)1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 ii`- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i+- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within (unless that is its input)1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 i`- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within (Unless that is its input)1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 +* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within32Mikko
27 Jul 24 i`* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within31olcott
27 Jul 24 i +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within, unless that is what the input descriibes1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within28Mikko
29 Jul 24 i  `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within27olcott
29 Jul 24 i   +* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within19joes
29 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within18olcott
30 Jul 24 i   i `* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within17joes
30 Jul 24 i   i  `* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within16olcott
30 Jul 24 i   i   +* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within4Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i   i   i`* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within3olcott
31 Jul 24 i   i   i +- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within, unless that is its input1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24 i   i   i `- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i   i   +* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within10joes
30 Jul 24 i   i   i`* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within9olcott
30 Jul 24 i   i   i +* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within7joes
30 Jul 24 i   i   i i`* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within6olcott
31 Jul 24 i   i   i i +* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within4Mike Terry
31 Jul 24 i   i   i i i`* Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within3olcott
31 Jul 24 i   i   i i i +- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within, unless that is its input1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24 i   i   i i i `- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
31 Jul 24 i   i   i i `- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
31 Jul 24 i   i   i `- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within, unless that is its input1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24 i   i   `- Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is contained within, unless that is its input1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 i   +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within UNLESS that is what the input actually describes1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 i   `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within6Mikko
31 Jul 24 i    `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within5olcott
1 Aug 24 i     `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within4Mikko
1 Aug 24 i      `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within3olcott
1 Aug 24 i       +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1joes
2 Aug 24 i       `- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Mikko
27 Jul 24 +- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 `* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within4Mad Hamish
27 Jul 24  +* Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within DETAILS2olcott
28 Jul 24  i`- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within DETAILS unless that is what the input is representing.1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24  `- Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within1Mikko

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