Re: key error in all the proofs --- Correction of Fred

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Sujet : Re: key error in all the proofs --- Correction of Fred
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 16. Aug 2024, 20:49:05
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <9ddc13b59efe79954838b7f59313cde87d8f2c4f@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 8/16/24 2:04 PM, olcott wrote:
On 8/16/2024 12:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 8/16/24 1:11 PM, olcott wrote:
On 8/16/2024 11:47 AM, joes wrote:
Am Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:07:08 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 8/16/2024 9:59 AM, joes wrote:
Am Fri, 16 Aug 2024 09:42:13 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 8/16/2024 9:28 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 8/16/24 10:09 AM, olcott wrote:
On 8/16/2024 8:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-08-16 12:02:00 +0000, olcott said:
>
Unless an unlimited emulation of DDD by HHH can reach the "return"
instruction of DDD it is construed that this instance of DDD never
halts.
But that also construes that HHH is a program that DOES an unlimited
emulation of DDD, and thus isn't a decider
Not at all. never has.
Yes, because DDD is defined to call its simulator. If you change the
simulator to abort, you also change the simulated HHH. Nobody cares
about HHH aborting a pure simulator.
>
HHH must predict what the behavior of an unlimited simulation would
be.
The HHH that aborts must predict what DDD calling an aborting HHH does
NOT AT ALL, NEVER HAS.
PREDICT WHAT THE BEHAVIOR WOULD BE
IF IT WAS AN UNLIMITED EMULATION
Yes, an unlimited simulation of an aborting HHH.
>
Prediction of behavior of unlimited emulation
means prediction of behavior that never aborts.
>
>
Right, but the unlimited emulation of the DDD that calls the HHH that says non-halting will reach a final state.
>
 I think that you are just twisting my words again.
 _DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
 The unlimited emulation of DDD by HHH never stops running.
 
IF you are going to change an define that *THE* HHH is just a program that does unlimited emulation, than it fails to give the answer that the input is non-halting.
That's your problem, you only get to have one definition of what HHH is, as the definition of DDD includes the HHH that it is calling.
For you to claim that HHH needs to answer about something other than what HHH is acually given, which is the DDD that calls the HHH that is there, is just a LIE.
So, you have to choose which way you are wrong.
Eitehr HHH does the unlimited emulation, and thus fails to answer, or
HHH does a partial emulation of the DDD that calls the partially emulating HHH which makes DDD halting, and thus your HHH gives the wrong answer.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Aug 24 * Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?395olcott
2 Aug 24 +* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?11Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i`* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?10olcott
3 Aug 24 i `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?9Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i  `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?8olcott
3 Aug 24 i   `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?7Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i    `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?6olcott
3 Aug 24 i     `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?5Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i      `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?4olcott
3 Aug 24 i       `* Re: Olcott is too stupid to know that only the DDD correctly simulated by onlly the HHH that doesn't abort cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?3Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i        `* Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated,by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?2olcott
3 Aug 24 i         `- Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated,by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?1Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 +* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?287Fred. Zwarts
3 Aug 24 i`* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?286olcott
3 Aug 24 i +* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?284Fred. Zwarts
3 Aug 24 i i`* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?283olcott
3 Aug 24 i i +- Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?1Fred. Zwarts
3 Aug 24 i i `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?281Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i  `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?280olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   +* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?278Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i`* Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?277olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?276Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i  `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?275olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?29Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?28olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?27Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i  `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?26olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i   `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?25Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i    `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?24olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i     `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?23Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i      `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?22olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i       `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD21Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i        `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD20olcott
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i         `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD19Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i i   i   i          `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD18olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i           `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD17Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i            `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD16olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i             `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD15Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i              `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD14olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i               `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD13Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD12olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                 `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD11Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                  `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD10olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                   +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD3Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                   i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD2olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i   i                   i `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD1Richard Damon
5 Aug 24 i i   i   i                   `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD6Mikko
5 Aug 24 i i   i   i                    `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD5olcott
7 Aug 24 i i   i   i                     `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD4Mikko
7 Aug 24 i i   i   i                      `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?3olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i   i                       +- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i   i                       `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Mikko
4 Aug 24 i i   i   `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?245Fred. Zwarts
4 Aug 24 i i   i    `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?244olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i     `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?243Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i i   i      `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?242olcott
4 Aug 24 i i   i       +- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
5 Aug 24 i i   i       +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?236Mikko
5 Aug 24 i i   i       i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?235olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?25Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?24olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?23Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i  `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?22olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?4wij
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?3olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   i +- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   i `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1wij
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   +- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i   `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?16Mike Terry
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?14olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i+* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?5Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    ii`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?4olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    ii `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?3Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    ii  `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?2olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    ii   `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?8Mike Terry
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?7olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  +* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?5Mike Terry
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  i+* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?3olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  ii`* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?2Mike Terry
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  ii `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1olcott
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  i`- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1olcott
7 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    i  `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
6 Aug 24 i i   i       i i    `- Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?1Richard Damon
7 Aug 24 i i   i       i `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?209Mikko
7 Aug 24 i i   i       i  `* HHH computes the mapping from its input finite sting to the actual behavior specified by this finite string208olcott
7 Aug 24 i i   i       i   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it206joes
7 Aug 24 i i   i       i   i+* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it204olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii`* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it203Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii `* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state202olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii  `* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state201Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- HHH never reaches its halt state so never decides, or it decides wrong.1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state1Richard Damon
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state186olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   +* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   ii   `* Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it --- never reaches its halt state2olcott
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   i`- Re: HHH maps its input to the behavior specified by it1Mikko
8 Aug 24 i i   i       i   `- Re: HHH computes the mapping from its input finite sting to the actual behavior specified by this finite string (Which is the results of running the input)1Richard Damon
7 Aug 24 i i   i       `* Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state?4Keith Thompson
4 Aug 24 i i   `- Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?1Fred. Zwarts
3 Aug 24 i `- Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?1Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 `* Re: Who here is too stupid to know that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction?96Mikko

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