Re: Pathological self-reference changes the semantics of the same finite string.

On 8/30/24 8:32 AM, olcott wrote:

On 8/30/2024 3:02 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-08-29 17:53:44 +0000, olcott said:
>

On 8/29/2024 12:39 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

Op 29.aug.2024 om 15:44 schreef olcott:

On 8/29/2024 2:46 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-08-28 11:51:51 +0000, olcott said:
>

On 8/28/2024 2:37 AM, Mikko wrote:

This group is for discussions about the theory of computation and related
topics. Discussion about people is off-topic.
>

>
Try to point to the tiniest lack of clarity in this fully
specified concrete example.
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
>
_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>
HHH computes the mapping from DDD to behavior that never reaches
its "return" statement on the basis of the x86 emulation of DDD
by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language.
>
For all the  years people said that this simulation is incorrect
never realizing that they were disagreeing with the semantics
of the x86 language.
>
Now that I point this out all that I get for "rebuttal" is bluster
and double talk.
>
The same thing applies to this more complex example that
is simply over-the-head of most reviewers:
>
int DD()
{
   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
   if (Halt_Status)
     HERE: goto HERE;
   return Halt_Status;
}

>
Nice to see that you don't disagree.
But you should not use subject lines that are off-topic for the group.
>

>
When a specific reviewer makes a specific mistake in
reviewing my work related to this group I must refer
to that specific reviewer's mistake to clear my name.
>
I could generalize it. No one person here besides myself
sufficiently understands the details of how a simulating
halt decider computes the mapping from an input finite
string to the behavior that this finite sting specifies.

>
It looks more that you are the only person that does not understand these details, but who thinks that his dreams are a nice substitute for facts.
>

>
I specifically referred to Ben because he got everything
else correctly. Most everyone else cannot even understand
that correct simulation is defined by HHH emulating DDD
according to the semantics of the x86 language.

>
Olcott does not even understand what the semantics of the x86 language is. He thinks that a finite string can have different behaviours according to the semantics of the x86 language, depending on whether it is directly executed, or simulated by different simulators, where the semantics could be different for each simulator.
>

>
Pathological self-reference DOES CHANGE THE SEMANTICS.

>
No, it does not.
>

"This sentence is not true" is neither true nor false
because it is not a truth bearer.

>
Its meaning never changed.
>

 I showed you the before any after, that was before
it changed this is the after"
 *This sentence is not true: "This sentence is not true". is true*
 It changed because of one level of indirection applied to
pathological self-reference.
 

But the PROGRAM has no "levels of indiretion", so that doesn't apply.
PROGRAMS are, by definition, self-contained, and thus need (and can't use) references.
The copy of HHH in DDD doesn't say use whatever HHH is trying to decide this, it is saying use the HHH that this DDD was built on, which can't change if you try to give this input to another decider.
If you try to make it do so, it just shows that you system isn't actually asking the question you claim it is, which *IS* part of the problem with you setup.
The "input" "DDD" must be a complete and defined program, which means that the HHH that is in the system is FIXED, and thus talking about some other HHH being there is just a LIE that violates the rules of the system.
You are just proving that you are ignorant of the field you are talking about and trying to be intentionally deceptive to pass off your lies, but failing miserably because your deception is so obvious the main person it is deceiving is YOU.