Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 12. Sep 2024, 01:17:06
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vbt8di$3rqef$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 9/11/2024 11:31 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 11.sep.2024 om 13:41 schreef olcott:
On 9/11/2024 2:35 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-11 00:21:36 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 9/10/2024 3:52 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-09 18:19:26 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 9/8/2024 9:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-07 13:57:00 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 9/7/2024 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-07 05:12:19 +0000, joes said:
>
Am Fri, 06 Sep 2024 06:42:48 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 9/6/2024 6:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-05 13:24:20 +0000, olcott said:
On 9/5/2024 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-03 13:00:50 +0000, olcott said:
On 9/3/2024 5:25 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-09-02 16:38:03 +0000, olcott said:
>
A halt decider is a Turing machine that computes the mapping from
its finite string input to the behavior that this finite string
specifies.
>
A halt decider needn't compute the full behaviour, only whether
that behaviour is finite or infinite.
>
New slave_stack at:1038c4 Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation
>
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>
Hence  HHH(DDD)==0 is correct
>
Nice to see that you don't disagree with what said.
Unvortunately I can't agree with what you say.
HHH terminates,
os DDD obviously terminates, too. No valid
>
DDD emulated by HHH never reaches it final halt state.
>
If that iis true it means that HHH called by DDD does not return and
therefore is not a ceicder.
The directly executed HHH is a decider.
What does simulating it change about that?
>
If the simulation is incorrect it may change anything.
>
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
>
However, a correct simultation faithfully imitates the original
behaviour.
>
>
_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>
A correct emulation obeys the x86 machine code even
if this machine code catches the machine on fire.
>
It is impossible for an emulation of DDD by HHH to
reach machine address 00002183 AND YOU KNOW IT!!!
>
A correct emulation of DDD does reach the machine address 0000217f and
a little later 00002183.
>
*That is counter-factual and you cannot possibly show otherwise*
>
A halt decider is required to predict about the actual execution,
not a couterfactual assumption.
>
>
False assumption.
A halt decider must compute the mapping that its input
finite string specifies.
 And the input, a finite string that describes a program based on the aborting HHH, describes a halting program, as proven by the direct execution, by the unmodified world class simulator and even by HHH1. The semantics of the x86 language allows only one behaviour for the finite string. Any program claiming another behaviour violates the semantics of the x86 language,
 
>
It is ridiculously stupid to assume that the fact
that DDD calls its own emulator does not change
its behavior relative to not calling its own emulator.
 It ridiculous to assume that the semantics of the x86 language allows another behaviour for the finite string.
  Why do you have a religious conviction to this stupid
mistake?
Once we understand we can make a machine that detects
lies in real time on the basis of knowing truth we will
know that we didn't have to die from climate change or
allow the rise of the fourth Reich.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Sep 24 * Defining a correct simulating halt decider193olcott
2 Sep 24 +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
2 Sep 24 +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider39Fred. Zwarts
2 Sep 24 i+* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider27olcott
2 Sep 24 ii+- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
3 Sep 24 ii+* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 iii`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
4 Sep 24 iii +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
4 Sep 24 iii `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 ii`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider21joes
3 Sep 24 ii +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1olcott
3 Sep 24 ii `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider19olcott
3 Sep 24 ii  +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider13joes
3 Sep 24 ii  i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider12olcott
4 Sep 24 ii  i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
4 Sep 24 ii  i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider10Fred. Zwarts
4 Sep 24 ii  i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider9olcott
5 Sep 24 ii  i   +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
5 Sep 24 ii  i   `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider7Fred. Zwarts
5 Sep 24 ii  i    +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
6 Sep 24 ii  i    i+- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 ii  i    i`- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
6 Sep 24 ii  i    `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
7 Sep 24 ii  i     +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 ii  i     `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
4 Sep 24 ii  +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
4 Sep 24 ii  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4Fred. Zwarts
4 Sep 24 ii   `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
5 Sep 24 ii    +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
5 Sep 24 ii    `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider11olcott
3 Sep 24 i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
3 Sep 24 i +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider7Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 i i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider6olcott
4 Sep 24 i i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
4 Sep 24 i i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4Fred. Zwarts
4 Sep 24 i i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
5 Sep 24 i i   +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
5 Sep 24 i i   `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider2joes
3 Sep 24 i  `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1olcott
3 Sep 24 +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
3 Sep 24 i+- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
3 Sep 24 i`- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
3 Sep 24 +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider148Mikko
3 Sep 24 i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider147olcott
4 Sep 24 i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
5 Sep 24 i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider145Mikko
5 Sep 24 i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider144olcott
5 Sep 24 i   +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider56joes
5 Sep 24 i   i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider55olcott
5 Sep 24 i   i +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider52joes
5 Sep 24 i   i i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider51olcott
5 Sep 24 i   i i +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider48joes
5 Sep 24 i   i i i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider47olcott
5 Sep 24 i   i i i +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider41joes
5 Sep 24 i   i i i i+* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider9olcott
5 Sep 24 i   i i i ii`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider8joes
5 Sep 24 i   i i i ii +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider2olcott
6 Sep 24 i   i i i ii i`- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   i i i ii +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i ii i+- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i ii i`- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1joes
7 Sep 24 i   i i i ii `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider2olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i ii  `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider31olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider29joes
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider28olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider17Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider16olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider15Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider14olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i   `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider13Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i    `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider12olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i     `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider11Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i      `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider10olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i       `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider9Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i        +* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i        i`* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i        i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider2olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i        i  `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i        `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i         `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i          `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider2olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i i   i           `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
8 Sep 24 i   i i i i   `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider10Fred. Zwarts
8 Sep 24 i   i i i i    `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider9olcott
8 Sep 24 i   i i i i     +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
9 Sep 24 i   i i i i     `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider7Fred. Zwarts
9 Sep 24 i   i i i i      `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider6olcott
10 Sep 24 i   i i i i       +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
10 Sep 24 i   i i i i       `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4Fred. Zwarts
11 Sep 24 i   i i i i        `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
11 Sep 24 i   i i i i         +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
12 Sep 24 i   i i i i         `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   i i i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   i i i `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider4Fred. Zwarts
6 Sep 24 i   i i i  `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider3olcott
7 Sep 24 i   i i i   +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
7 Sep 24 i   i i i   `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
6 Sep 24 i   i i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   i i `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
6 Sep 24 i   i +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   i `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Richard Damon
6 Sep 24 i   +- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1Fred. Zwarts
6 Sep 24 i   `* Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider85Mikko
11 Sep 24 `- Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider1R. Swipe

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