Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider

On 9/11/24 10:15 PM, olcott wrote:

On 9/11/2024 6:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 9/11/24 7:17 PM, olcott wrote:

On 9/11/2024 11:31 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

Op 11.sep.2024 om 13:41 schreef olcott:

On 9/11/2024 2:35 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-11 00:21:36 +0000, olcott said:
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On 9/10/2024 3:52 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-09 18:19:26 +0000, olcott said:
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On 9/8/2024 9:53 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-07 13:57:00 +0000, olcott said:
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On 9/7/2024 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-07 05:12:19 +0000, joes said:
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Am Fri, 06 Sep 2024 06:42:48 -0500 schrieb olcott:

On 9/6/2024 6:19 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-05 13:24:20 +0000, olcott said:

On 9/5/2024 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-03 13:00:50 +0000, olcott said:

On 9/3/2024 5:25 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-09-02 16:38:03 +0000, olcott said:
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A halt decider is a Turing machine that computes the mapping from
its finite string input to the behavior that this finite string
specifies.

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A halt decider needn't compute the full behaviour, only whether
that behaviour is finite or infinite.
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New slave_stack at:1038c4 Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation

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Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
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Hence  HHH(DDD)==0 is correct

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Nice to see that you don't disagree with what said.
Unvortunately I can't agree with what you say.
HHH terminates,
os DDD obviously terminates, too. No valid

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DDD emulated by HHH never reaches it final halt state.

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If that iis true it means that HHH called by DDD does not return and
therefore is not a ceicder.

The directly executed HHH is a decider.

What does simulating it change about that?

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If the simulation is incorrect it may change anything.
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PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR
PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR

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However, a correct simultation faithfully imitates the original
behaviour.
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_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
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A correct emulation obeys the x86 machine code even
if this machine code catches the machine on fire.
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It is impossible for an emulation of DDD by HHH to
reach machine address 00002183 AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

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A correct emulation of DDD does reach the machine address 0000217f and
a little later 00002183.

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*That is counter-factual and you cannot possibly show otherwise*

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A halt decider is required to predict about the actual execution,
not a couterfactual assumption.
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False assumption.
A halt decider must compute the mapping that its input
finite string specifies.

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And the input, a finite string that describes a program based on the aborting HHH, describes a halting program, as proven by the direct execution, by the unmodified world class simulator and even by HHH1. The semantics of the x86 language allows only one behaviour for the finite string. Any program claiming another behaviour violates the semantics of the x86 language,
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It is ridiculously stupid to assume that the fact
that DDD calls its own emulator does not change
its behavior relative to not calling its own emulator.

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It ridiculous to assume that the semantics of the x86 language allows another behaviour for the finite string.
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Why do you have a religious conviction to this stupid
mistake?

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Once we understand we can make a machine that detects
lies in real time on the basis of knowing truth we will
know that we didn't have to die from climate change or
allow the rise of the fourth Reich.
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Are you sure we can do that?
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The problem seems to be that you are ASSUMING it.
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 The key is (as I have been saying for a long time)
To anchor the accurate model of the actual world in axioms.

And how do you know your axiom about the actual world are correct? Things about what we have defined are one thing. (like defining a foot to be 12 inches). But anything that is based on observation inherently has a degree of error, and thus we can't actually KNOW if our conclusions are true.

 *AS FREAKING DETAILED BELOW*
Getting from Generative AI to Trustworthy AI:
What LLMs might learn from Cyc
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2308/2308.04445.pdf

Which absolutely can't tell if something about an empirical statement is actually correct, as it is a pure analytic system.
Your problem, again, is that you just don't understand what you are reading, or talking about, because you have literally decided not to study the core of logic to know how it works, and thus are speaking out of pure ignorance.

 *Some of the most brilliant minds in AI for 40 years*
Doug Lenat Gary Marcus July 31, 2023