Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 25. Oct 2024, 23:17:32
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <a737237de974cafe1366079cc5923b6f7cac6029@i2pn2.org>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 10/25/24 1:12 PM, wij wrote:
Proof: Simulating self is not possible (from all real programs, every one can verify).
 This also implies UTM does not exist.
 Did Turing made a mistake?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine
 
The key point you are missing is that if the UTM emulating a program like H^ (without the contrary nature at the end), so that we can get the infinite chain of UTM emulating that UTM emulating that UTM ..., it just ends up being a non-halting computation, and thus the non-halting emulation of that computation is exactly right.
The problem is if you want it to be a UTM and also a decider, then you run into the problem.
The UTM chain *IS* an infinite deep recursive simulation, which is just like the infinite-recursion, which is non-halting.
When you change the UTM to be a decider (and thus no longer a UTM) it finds it can't know the answer for the behavior of the UTM it was previously.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
25 Oct 24 * No TM exists that can simulate all TM.11wij
25 Oct 24 +* Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.2joes
25 Oct 24 i`- Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.1wij
26 Oct 24 +* Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.7Richard Damon
26 Oct 24 i`* Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.6wij
26 Oct 24 i +* Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.4Richard Damon
27 Oct 24 i i`* Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.3wij
27 Oct 24 i i +- Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.1joes
27 Oct 24 i i `- Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.1Richard Damon
26 Oct 24 i `- Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.1joes
26 Oct 24 `- Re: No TM exists that can simulate all TM.1Mikko

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