Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH

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Sujet : Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH
De : noreply (at) *nospam* example.org (joes)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 20. Feb 2025, 12:54:57
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <c95d7394f017ad77fa85658b8c7e1849d478ee32@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
User-Agent : Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a git.gnome.org/pan2)
Am Wed, 19 Feb 2025 18:31:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/19/2025 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-18 11:26:25 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/18/2025 3:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-17 09:05:42 +0000, Fred. Zwarts said:
Op 16.feb.2025 om 23:51 schreef olcott:
On 2/16/2025 4:30 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 15:58:14 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/16/2025 2:02 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:24:14 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/16/2025 10:35 AM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 06:51:12 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/15/2025 2:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-14 12:40:04 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/14/2025 2:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-14 00:07:23 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/13/2025 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-13 04:21:34 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/12/2025 4:04 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-11 14:41:38 +0000, olcott said:
>
DD  correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate
normally.
>
That claim has already shown to be false. Nothing above
shows that HHH does not return 0. If it does DD also returns
0.
When we are referring to the above DD simulated by HHH and
not trying to get away with changing the subject to some
other DD somewhere else
such as one that calls a non-aborting version of HHH
>
then anyone with sufficient knowledge of C programming knows
that no instance of DD shown above simulated by any
corresponding instance of HHH can possibly terminate
normally.
Well, then that corresponding (by what?) HHH isn’t a decider.
I am focusing on the isomorphic notion of a termination
analyzer.
(There are other deciders that are not termination analysers.)
>
A simulating termination analyzer correctly rejects any input
that must be aborted to prevent its own non-termination.
Yes, in particular itself is not such an input, because we
*know* that it halts, because it is a decider. You can’t have
your cake and eat it too.
I am not even using the confusing term "halts".
Instead I am using in its place "terminates normally".
DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally.
What’s confusing about „halts”? I find it clearer as it does not
imply an ambiguous „abnormal termination”. How does HHH simulate
DD terminating abnormally, then? Why doesn’t it terminate
abnormally itself?
You can substitute the term: the input DD to HHH does not need to
be aborted, because the simulated decider terminates.
>
Every simulated input that must be aborted to prevent the
non-termination of HHH is stipulated to be correctly rejected by
HHH as non-terminating.
>
A very strange and invalid stipulation.
>
It merely means that the words do not have their ordinary meaning.
>
Unless HHH(DD) aborts its simulation of DD itself cannot possibly
terminate normally.
 
That cannot be determined without examination of HHH, which is not in
the scope of OP.
 
I have given everyone here all of the complete source code for a few
years
918-1156 // All of the lines of termination analyzer HHH
https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
Why won’t you talk about what line 1059 does?
https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/
48b4cbfeb3f486507276a5fc4e9b10875ab24dbf/Halt7.c#L1059

Every expert in the C programming language can see this.
They can't when they can't see HHH and even then it is not obvious,
so the claim on the subject line is false.
--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 Feb 25 * Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH420olcott
14 Feb 25 +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH137Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH136olcott
14 Feb 25 i +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH131joes
15 Feb 25 i i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH130olcott
15 Feb 25 i i +- Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH1Richard Damon
15 Feb 25 i i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH128joes
16 Feb 25 i i  `* DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN127olcott
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN124joes
16 Feb 25 i i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3olcott
16 Feb 25 i i    i+- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
20 Feb 25 i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN120olcott
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN31Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN30olcott
21 Feb 25 i i     i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
21 Feb 25 i i     i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN28Mikko
21 Feb 25 i i     i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN27olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN25Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN24olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN19Mikko
23 Feb 25 i i     i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN18olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i       +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
24 Feb 25 i i     i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN16Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN15olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
25 Feb 25 i i     i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN8Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN7olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN5Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN4olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN87joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN86olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN84joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy83olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy67dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy66olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy65dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy64olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy63dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy62olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy61dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy60olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy59dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy58olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy57dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy56olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i           `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy55dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i            `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy54olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy52dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy51olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy50dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy49olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy47dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy46olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy45dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy44olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy43dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy42olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy41dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy40olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy37dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy36olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy35dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy34olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy33dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy30olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy29dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy28olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy25dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy24olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy22dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy21olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy20dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy19olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy18dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy17olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy16dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i+* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy11dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy10olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy9dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
23 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
20 Feb 25 i i     `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH4Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH282Mikko

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