Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH

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Sujet : Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 21. Feb 2025, 02:12:34
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <a40dce6874f39d9f8ee20d9977f44ef73d85ebef@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 2/20/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote:
On 2/20/2025 2:38 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-20 00:31:33 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 2/19/2025 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-18 11:26:25 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 2/18/2025 3:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-17 09:05:42 +0000, Fred. Zwarts said:
>
Op 16.feb.2025 om 23:51 schreef olcott:
On 2/16/2025 4:30 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 15:58:14 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/16/2025 2:02 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:24:14 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/16/2025 10:35 AM, joes wrote:
Am Sun, 16 Feb 2025 06:51:12 -0600 schrieb olcott:
On 2/15/2025 2:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-14 12:40:04 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/14/2025 2:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-14 00:07:23 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/13/2025 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-13 04:21:34 +0000, olcott said:
On 2/12/2025 4:04 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-02-11 14:41:38 +0000, olcott said:
>
DD  correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally.
>
That claim has already shown to be false. Nothing above shows that
HHH does not return 0. If it does DD also returns 0.
When we are referring to the above DD simulated by HHH and not
trying to get away with changing the subject to some other DD
somewhere else
such as one that calls a non-aborting version of HHH
>
then anyone with sufficient knowledge of C programming knows that no
instance of DD shown above simulated by any corresponding instance
of HHH can possibly terminate normally.
Well, then that corresponding (by what?) HHH isn’t a decider.
I am focusing on the isomorphic notion of a termination analyzer.
(There are other deciders that are not termination analysers.)
>
A simulating termination analyzer correctly rejects any input that
must be aborted to prevent its own non-termination.
Yes, in particular itself is not such an input, because we *know* that
it halts, because it is a decider. You can’t have your cake and eat it
too.
I am not even using the confusing term "halts".
Instead I am using in its place "terminates normally".
DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally.
What’s confusing about „halts”? I find it clearer as it does not imply
an ambiguous „abnormal termination”. How does HHH simulate DD
terminating abnormally, then? Why doesn’t it terminate abnormally
itself?
You can substitute the term: the input DD to HHH does not need to be
aborted, because the simulated decider terminates.
>
>
typedef void (*ptr)();
int HHH(ptr P);
>
int DD()
{
  int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
  if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
  return Halt_Status;
}
>
int main()
{
  HHH(DD);
}
>
Every simulated input that must be aborted to
prevent the non-termination of HHH is stipulated
to be correctly rejected by HHH as non-terminating.
>
A very strange and invalid stipulation.
>
It merely means that the words do not have their ordinary meaning.
>
Those two comments are not discussed below.
>
Unless HHH(DD) aborts its simulation of DD itself cannot possibly terminate normally.
>
That cannot be determined without examination of HHH, which is not in the
scope of OP.
>
I have given everyone here all of the complete source
code for a few years
>
True but irrelevant. OP did not specify that HHH means that particular
code.
>
 Every post that I have been talking about for two or
more years has referred to variations of that same code.
 
And thus, you LIE when you claim that HHH does something different then that code;
Note, a given program doesn't have "variations" but is always exactly what it is.
If you have variations, you don't have a single defined program, and all your work is prove to be based on admitted lies.
EIther HHH is one specific program always and forever, or you need to specify which variation you are using at every instance, something you do not do as it would prove you are just lying.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 Feb 25 * Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH420olcott
14 Feb 25 +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH137Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH136olcott
14 Feb 25 i +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH131joes
15 Feb 25 i i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH130olcott
15 Feb 25 i i +- Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH1Richard Damon
15 Feb 25 i i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH128joes
16 Feb 25 i i  `* DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN127olcott
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN124joes
16 Feb 25 i i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3olcott
16 Feb 25 i i    i+- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
20 Feb 25 i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN120olcott
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN31Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN30olcott
21 Feb 25 i i     i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
21 Feb 25 i i     i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN28Mikko
21 Feb 25 i i     i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN27olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN25Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN24olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN19Mikko
23 Feb 25 i i     i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN18olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i       +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
24 Feb 25 i i     i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN16Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN15olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
25 Feb 25 i i     i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN8Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN7olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN5Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN4olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN87joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN86olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN84joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy83olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy67dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy66olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy65dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy64olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy63dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy62olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy61dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy60olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy59dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy58olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy57dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy56olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i           `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy55dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i            `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy54olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy52dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy51olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy50dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy49olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy47dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy46olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy45dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy44olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy43dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy42olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy41dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy40olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy37dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy36olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy35dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy34olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy33dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy30olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy29dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy28olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy25dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy24olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy22dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy21olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy20dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy19olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy18dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy17olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy16dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i+* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy11dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy10olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy9dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
23 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
20 Feb 25 i i     `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH4Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH282Mikko

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