Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy
De : dbush.mobile (at) *nospam* gmail.com (dbush)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 22. Feb 2025, 20:40:44
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vpd97q$3e5k$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 2/22/2025 2:33 PM, olcott wrote:
On 2/22/2025 1:17 PM, dbush wrote:
On 2/22/2025 1:54 PM, olcott wrote:
On 2/22/2025 12:21 PM, dbush wrote:
On 2/22/2025 1:02 PM, olcott wrote:
 
>
01 int F(int i)
02 {
03      if (i<10) {
04          return 0;
05      } else {
06          return F(i+1);
07      }
08 }
09
10 int no_numbers_greater_than_10()
11 {
12      return F(0);
13 }
14
15 int main()
16 {
17   no_numbers_greater_than_10();
18   return 0;
19 }
>
Actually, let's update main:
>
int main()
{
    F((int)no_numbers_greater_than_10);
    return 0;
}
>
>
The function no_numbers_greater_than_10() checks if any natural number exists that is greater than 10.  It does this by checking all natural numbers one at a time.  If one such number exists it halts and return 0.   If no such number exists, it will run forever as no such number will satisfy the condition.
>
>
Your code is incomplete. I added main() with line numbers.
>
We can see that no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly simulated by F cannot possibly terminate normal by reaching its own "return" instruction.  This means that F correctly reports that no_numbers_greater_than_10 is non-halting.  It further means, since no_numbers_greater_than_10  doesn't halt that there is no natural number greater than 10.
>
Agreed?
>
Here the execution trace that I see:
15, 16, 17, 10, 11, 12, 01, 02, 03, 04, 12, 18, 19
>
>
Just as you say we're not talking about the direct execution of DD, we're also not talking about the direct execution of no_numbers_greater_than_10.  We're talking about no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly simulated by F.
>
It's a verified fact that no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly simulated by F cannot possibly return so F(no_numbers_greater_than_10) is correct to report non-halting, which means that there is no natural number greater than 10.
>
Agreed?
>
>
Leaving out main() made this difficult.
We can assume that the address of no_numbers_greater_than_10 > 10.
This will emulate no_numbers_greater_than_10 at incorrect byte offsets
causing it to crash. This may or may not make F crash depending
on how robust its emulator is.
>
>
Let's make a small change so that wraparound is well defined:
>
int F(uintptr_t i)
{
      if (i<10) {
          return 0;
      } else {
          return F(i+1);
      }
}
>
This ensures that F((uintptr_t)no_numbers_greater_than_10) returns 0.
>
This doesn't change the fact that no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly
simulated by F cannot possibly return so F(no_numbers_greater_than_10)
is correct to report non-halting, which means that there is no natural
number greater than 10.
>
Agreed?
 i starts out as the address of
no_numbers_greater_than_10
Then causes the emulation to crash.
 
If that address is greater than 10 then F returns 0 right away, otherwise it makes at most 10 recursive calls before returning 0, so there would be no crash.
So you agree that no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly
simulated by F (i.e. if the body of the function F is replaced by an unconditional simulator as you said is correct) cannot possibly return?

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 Feb 25 * Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH420olcott
14 Feb 25 +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH137Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH136olcott
14 Feb 25 i +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH131joes
15 Feb 25 i i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH130olcott
15 Feb 25 i i +- Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH1Richard Damon
15 Feb 25 i i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH128joes
16 Feb 25 i i  `* DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN127olcott
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN124joes
16 Feb 25 i i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3olcott
16 Feb 25 i i    i+- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
20 Feb 25 i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN120olcott
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN31Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN30olcott
21 Feb 25 i i     i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
21 Feb 25 i i     i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN28Mikko
21 Feb 25 i i     i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN27olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN25Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN24olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN19Mikko
23 Feb 25 i i     i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN18olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i       +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
24 Feb 25 i i     i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN16Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN15olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
25 Feb 25 i i     i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN8Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN7olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN5Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN4olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN87joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN86olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN84joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy83olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy67dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy66olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy65dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy64olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy63dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy62olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy61dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy60olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy59dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy58olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy57dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy56olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i           `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy55dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i            `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy54olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy52dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy51olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy50dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy49olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy47dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy46olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy45dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy44olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy43dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy42olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy41dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy40olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy37dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy36olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy35dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy34olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy33dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy30olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy29dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy28olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy25dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy24olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy22dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy21olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy20dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy19olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy18dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy17olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy16dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i+* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy11dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy10olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy9dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
23 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
20 Feb 25 i i     `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH4Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH282Mikko

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal