Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy

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Sujet : Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 23. Feb 2025, 01:33:12
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vpdqc8$6bqs$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 2/22/2025 4:59 PM, dbush wrote:
On 2/22/2025 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
On 2/22/2025 2:59 PM, dbush wrote:
On 2/22/2025 3:53 PM, olcott wrote:
On 2/22/2025 2:09 PM, dbush wrote:
On 2/22/2025 3:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>
01 int F(int i)
02 {
03   if (i > 10)
04     return 0;
05   else
06     return F(i+1);
07 }
08
09 int no_numbers_greater_than_10()
10 {
11   return F(0);
12 }
13
14 int main()
15 {
16   F((int)no_numbers_greater_than_10);
17   return 0;
18 }
>
>
So if the address of no_numbers_greater_than_10 is greater than 10 then 0 is returned right away, otherwise as most 10 recursive calls will be made before the condition is matched and 0 is returned.
>
This doesn't change the fact that no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly
simulated by F cannot possibly return so F(no_numbers_greater_than_10)
is correct to report non-halting, which means that there is no natural
number greater than 10.
>
Agreed?
>
I think that you will find more bugs when you try to
provide the line number by line number execution trace.
>
#1 bug F never simulates anything.
>
>
It is a verified fact that
>
F never simulates anything when i > 10.
>
 Remember, you agreed that the behavior of X simulated by Y is defined by replacing the code of Y with an unconditional simulator and running Y(X):
 On 2/22/2025 1:02 PM, olcott wrote:
 > On 2/22/2025 11:10 AM, dbush wrote:
 >> On 2/22/2025 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>> The first point is DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot
 >>> possibly terminate normally by reaching its own "return"
 >>> instruction.
 >>
 >> In other words, if the code of HHH is replaced with an unconditional simulator then it can be shown that DD is non-halting and therefore HHH(DD)==0 is correct.
 >>
 >
 > Wow finally someone that totally gets it.
  So the behavior of no_numbers_greater_than_10 simulated by F is defined by replacing the code of F with an unconditional simulated and running F(no_numbers_greater_than_10).
 The finite string input to F proves that there are no instructions in no_numbers_greater_than_10 that can break the recursive simulation.
 Try to show how no_numbers_greater_than_10 correctly simulated by F can possibly halt.
Then is ceases to be analogous to HHH(DD) because
no_numbers_greater_than_10() always terminates normally
by reaching its own "return" instruction.
Unlike HHH(DD) F((int)no_numbers_greater_than_10);
does not need to abort the emulation of its input
to prevent its own non-termination.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 Feb 25 * Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH420olcott
14 Feb 25 +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH137Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH136olcott
14 Feb 25 i +* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH131joes
15 Feb 25 i i`* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH130olcott
15 Feb 25 i i +- Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH1Richard Damon
15 Feb 25 i i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH128joes
16 Feb 25 i i  `* DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN127olcott
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN124joes
16 Feb 25 i i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3olcott
16 Feb 25 i i    i+- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
16 Feb 25 i i    i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
20 Feb 25 i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN120olcott
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN31Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN30olcott
21 Feb 25 i i     i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
21 Feb 25 i i     i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN28Mikko
21 Feb 25 i i     i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN27olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i   +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN25Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN24olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN19Mikko
23 Feb 25 i i     i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN18olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i       +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
24 Feb 25 i i     i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN16Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN15olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i         i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i         +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Fred. Zwarts
25 Feb 25 i i     i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN8Mikko
25 Feb 25 i i     i          `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN7olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN5Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN4olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN3Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN2olcott
26 Feb 25 i i     i           i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
26 Feb 25 i i     i           `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Mikko
20 Feb 25 i i     +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN87joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN86olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN84joes
22 Feb 25 i i     i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy83olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy67dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy66olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy65dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy64olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy63dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy62olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy61dbush
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy60olcott
22 Feb 25 i i     i i i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy59dbush
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22 Feb 25 i i     i i i         `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy57dbush
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22 Feb 25 i i     i i i           `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy55dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i            `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy54olcott
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy52dbush
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23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy50dbush
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24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy45dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy44olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy43dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy42olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy41dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy40olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy37dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i`* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy36olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy35dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy34olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy33dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2dbush
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24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy30olcott
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy29dbush
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy28olcott
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24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy25dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i        `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy24olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy22dbush
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25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy20dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i  `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy19olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i   `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy18dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i    `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy17olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i     `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy16dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      +* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i+* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy11dbush
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25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      ii `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy9dbush
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      i`- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         i      `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2olcott
25 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       i         `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   i       `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy2joes
24 Feb 25 i i     i i i             i   `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1dbush
23 Feb 25 i i     i i i             `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
22 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1joes
23 Feb 25 i i     i i +- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy1Richard Damon
23 Feb 25 i i     i i `* Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN --- Saving Democracy13Mikko
22 Feb 25 i i     i `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
20 Feb 25 i i     `- Re: DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH --- RECURSIVE CHAIN1Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 i `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH4Richard Damon
14 Feb 25 `* Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH282Mikko

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