Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 05. May 2025, 10:18:45
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <vv9vpl$5m0n$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2025-05-05 02:49:46 +0000, olcott said:

On 5/4/2025 7:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/4/25 6:15 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/4/2025 2:21 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
On 04/05/2025 18:55, olcott wrote:
Changing my words then rebutting these changed
words is dishonest.
 Functions computed by Turing Machines require INPUTS
and produce OUTPUTS DERIVED FROM THESE INPUTS.
 Counter-example: a Turing Machine can calculate pi without any input whatsoever.
 As Mikko rightly said: a Turing machine does not need to require an input.
 
 IT IS NOT COMPUTING FUNCTION THEN
IT IS NOT COMPUTING FUNCTION THEN
IT IS NOT COMPUTING FUNCTION THEN
IT IS NOT COMPUTING FUNCTION THEN
 Right, not all Turing Machine compute Functions, they all do perform Computations.
 
 Even those that know this pretend that they don't.
 
 Computable functions are the basic objects of study in computability theory. Computable functions are the formalized analogue of the intuitive notion of algorithms, in the sense that a function is computable if there exists an algorithm that can do the job of the function, i.e. given an input of the function domain it can return the corresponding output.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_function
 given an input of the function domain it can return the corresponding output.
 Right, and the input to a Halt Decider is the representation of a Program,
 Not exactly. It is a 100% specific precise sequence of encoded steps.
Not at all the same as a mere description.
The definition of the halting problem requires a description of the
program and a description of the input. How a program and an input
shall be presented must be specified as a part of the solution. One
way to specify it is that the solution includes an universal Turing
machine and specifies that the input description must be so that
that universal Turing machine reproduces the correct behaviour.
Whatever description language the solution rquires it must be a
complete language for the purpose: the encoding rules must be
applicable to every Turing machine and every input to that machine.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
21 Apr 25 * Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error450Keith Thompson
22 Apr 25 +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error442olcott
22 Apr 25 i+- Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error1Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error440olcott
25 Apr 25 i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error195Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error194olcott
25 Apr 25 i i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error192joes
26 Apr 25 i i i`* Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs191olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs188joes
26 Apr 25 i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs187olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs185Fred. Zwarts
26 Apr 25 i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs184olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs181Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs180olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs172dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs171olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs170dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs169olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs137dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs136olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs134dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs132olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs5dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs125Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs124Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs123olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs15dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs11dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs10olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs6olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs3olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs2Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs104Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs103olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++13olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++12dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++11olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i   `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++10dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i    `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++9olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++2dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++5Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i      `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs2Alan Mackenzie
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs1olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs86Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT85olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT7dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT6olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT2dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT65Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT64olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT48Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT47olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT45Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT44olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT42Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT41olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT39Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT38olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT35Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT15olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT11Keith Thompson
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT10olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT9Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT5olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT4Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT19Mike Terry
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT14Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT11joes
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Heathfield
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs24Mike Terry
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7Richard Damon
27 Apr 25 i i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
26 Apr 25 i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i `- Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error1Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error21André G. Isaak
26 Apr 25 i `* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error223Mikko
22 Apr 25 +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error4Keith Thompson
22 Apr 25 `* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error3Richard Damon

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