Re: Functions computed by Turing Machines MUST apply finite string transformations to inputs --- MT

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Sujet : Re: Functions computed by Turing Machines MUST apply finite string transformations to inputs --- MT
De : dbush.mobile (at) *nospam* gmail.com (dbush)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 07. May 2025, 19:55:22
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vvgaaq$15i5e$12@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/7/2025 2:47 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/7/2025 10:44 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 07 May 2025 10:03:55 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 5/7/2025 7:01 AM, dbush wrote:
On 5/7/2025 6:16 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 06.mei.2025 om 21:15 schreef olcott:
>
None-the-less it is the words that the best selling author of theory
of computation textbooks agreed to: *would never stop running unless
aborted*
is the hypothetical HHH/DD pair where the same HHH that DD calls does
not abort the simulation of its input.
>
Nevertheless, this change makes it fundamentally different.
I can't believe that you are so stupid to think that modifying a
program does not make a program different. Are you trolling?
>
Given that he's shown he doesn't understand (and this list is by no
means exhaustive):
* what requirements are * what correct means * what true means * what a
proof is * how proof by contradiction works
I wouldn't put it past him that he actually believes it.  He'll say
anything to avoid admitting to himself that he wasted that last 22
years not understanding what he was working on.
(Anyone else that wants to add to this list, feel free)
>
A simulating halt decider must correctly predict *what the behavior
would be* if it did not abort its simulation.
 
...if it, the simulator, didn't abort. The input DD that is being
simulated still calls the same real HHH that does abort.
HHH needs to predict what would happen if this very same
HHH did not abort its input.
Category error.  Algorithms do one thing and one thing only.  There's no such thing as "what if an algorithm did something else".  That's just a different algorithm.
To satisfy the below requirements, HHH must predict what would happen in the hypothetical case that DD is executed directly, or alternately what would happen in the hypothetical case that DD is simulated by UTM.
Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the following mapping:
(<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
(<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly

Date Sujet#  Auteur
21 Apr 25 * Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error450Keith Thompson
22 Apr 25 +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error442olcott
22 Apr 25 i+- Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error1Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error440olcott
25 Apr 25 i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error195Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error194olcott
25 Apr 25 i i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error192joes
26 Apr 25 i i i`* Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs191olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs188joes
26 Apr 25 i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs187olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs185Fred. Zwarts
26 Apr 25 i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs184olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs181Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs180olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs172dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs171olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs170dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs169olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs137dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs136olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs134dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs132olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs5dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs125Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs124Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs123olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs15dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs11dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs10olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs6olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs3olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs2Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs104Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs103olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++13olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++12dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++11olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i   `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++10dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i    `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++9olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++2dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++5Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i      `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs2Alan Mackenzie
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs1olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs86Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT85olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT7dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT6olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT2dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT65Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT64olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT48Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT47olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT45Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT44olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT42Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT41olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT39Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT38olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT35Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT15olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT11Keith Thompson
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT10olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT9Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT5olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT4Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT19Mike Terry
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT14Fred. Zwarts
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT11joes
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Heathfield
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs24Mike Terry
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7Richard Damon
27 Apr 25 i i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
26 Apr 25 i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i `- Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error1Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error21André G. Isaak
26 Apr 25 i `* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error223Mikko
22 Apr 25 +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error4Keith Thompson
22 Apr 25 `* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error3Richard Damon

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