Re: What it would take...

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: What it would take...
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 13. May 2025, 12:48:55
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vvvbj7$1ov7e$9@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2
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Op 12.mei.2025 om 19:29 schreef olcott:
On 5/9/2025 8:11 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
The HHH code doesn't exactly invite confidence in its author, and his theory is all over the place, but a thought experiment suggests itself.
>
If we were not all wasting our time bickering with a career bickerer... if we were to really /really/ try, could we patch up his case and send him on to his Turing Award? And if so, how?
>
ISTR that there is suspected to be a theoretical window for him, so I suppose what I'm asking is what sort of boathook we would need to poke that window a little wider.
>
Can he even get there from here? Evidence would suggest that simulation is a dead end unless he can find a way to get the simulated program to include its own simulation in its behaviour, which he has not yet managed to do - but /is/ there a way?
>
Or could he abandon simulation completely and instead write a TM parser that builds an AST and walks it looking for evidence of terminating or looping? If he could, would that turn the trick?
>
Or do we have a latter day Cantor waiting in the wings to close the window once and for all?
>
Is there, in short, any way of putting out this un-halting flame war and turning this group to better use?
>
 int DD()
{
   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
   if (Halt_Status)
     HERE: goto HERE;
   return Halt_Status;
}
 DD correctly simulated by any pure simulator
named HHH cannot possibly terminate thus proving
that the simulation failed and therefore is incorrect, because the end is reachable as proven by other simulators, but HHH fails to reach this reachable end.

that this criteria has
not
 > been met:>
<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
     input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D
     would never stop running unless aborted then
      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
 
This is about a correct simulation. So it does not apply to the above incorrect simulation.
You  seem to be very short of memory. Why repeating so many times claims that have been proven to be irrelevant?

Date Sujet#  Auteur
10 May 25 * What it would take...143Richard Heathfield
10 May 25 +* Re: What it would take...10Richard Damon
10 May 25 i+* Re: What it would take...2Richard Damon
10 May 25 ii`- Re: What it would take...1Richard Damon
10 May 25 i`* Re: What it would take...7olcott
10 May 25 i +- Re: What it would take...1Fred. Zwarts
10 May 25 i `* Re: What it would take...5wij
10 May 25 i  `* Re: What it would take...4olcott
10 May 25 i   +* Re: What it would take...2olcott
10 May 25 i   i`- Re: What it would take...1Richard Damon
11 May 25 i   `- Re: What it would take...1Mikko
12 May 25 +* Re: What it would take...130Ben Bacarisse
12 May 25 i+* Re: What it would take...121Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 ii+* Re: What it would take...118Ben Bacarisse
13 May 25 iii+* Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION?4olcott
13 May 25 iiii+- Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION?1dbush
13 May 25 iiii+- Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION?1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iiii`- Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION?1Mikko
13 May 25 iii+* Re: What it would take...16Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iiii`* How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met15olcott
13 May 25 iiii +* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met8Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iiii i`* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met7olcott
13 May 25 iiii i +- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1dbush
13 May 25 iiii i +- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iiii i +* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met3Richard Damon
13 May 25 iiii i i`* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met2olcott
13 May 25 iiii i i `- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iiii i `- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1Mikko
13 May 25 iiii +* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met5Richard Damon
13 May 25 iiii i`* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met4olcott
13 May 25 iiii i `* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met3Richard Damon
14 May 25 iiii i  `* Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met2olcott
14 May 25 iiii i   `- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iiii `- Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met1Fred. Zwarts
13 May 25 iii`* Re: What it would take...97Mike Terry
13 May 25 iii +- Re: What it would take...1Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iii +* Re: What it would take...8olcott
13 May 25 iii i+* Re: What it would take...5Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iii ii+* Re: What it would take...2olcott
13 May 25 iii iii`- Re: What it would take...1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iii ii`* Re: What it would take...2olcott
13 May 25 iii ii `- Re: What it would take...1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iii i+- Re: What it would take...1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iii i`- Re: What it would take...1Mikko
13 May 25 iii `* Re: What it would take...87André G. Isaak
13 May 25 iii  `* Re: What it would take...86olcott
13 May 25 iii   `* Re: What it would take...85Fred. Zwarts
13 May 25 iii    `* Re: What it would take...84Mike Terry
13 May 25 iii     `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric83olcott
13 May 25 iii      +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric74dbush
13 May 25 iii      i+* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric52olcott
13 May 25 iii      ii+* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric50dbush
13 May 25 iii      iii`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP49olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP47dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP46olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP44dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP43olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP42dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i  `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP41olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i   `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP40dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i    `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP39olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i     `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP38dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i      `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP37olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i       `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP36dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i        `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP35olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP6dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP5olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         i +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP3Fred. Zwarts
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         i i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP2olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         i i `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         i `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i         `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP28Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i          `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP27olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i           `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP26Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i            `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP25olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i             `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP24Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i              `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP23olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP21Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP20olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP18Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP17olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP11Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP10olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP8Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP7olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP6Richard Heathfield
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i  `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP5olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i   `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP4dbush
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i    `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP3olcott
15 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i     `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP2Fred. Zwarts
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i i      `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1olcott
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i i `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1dbush
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP5joes
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i  `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP4olcott
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i   `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP3Richard Damon
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i    `* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP2olcott
16 May 25 iii      iii i i               i i     `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1Richard Damon
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               i `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1joes
14 May 25 iii      iii i i               `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1joes
14 May 25 iii      iii i `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1Richard Damon
14 May 25 iii      iii `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP1Richard Damon
14 May 25 iii      ii`- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric1Richard Damon
13 May 25 iii      i`* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric21Richard Heathfield
13 May 25 iii      +* Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric7olcott
13 May 25 iii      `- Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric1Richard Damon
13 May 25 ii`* Re: What it would take...2Mike Terry
12 May 25 i`* Re: What it would take...8Andy Walker
12 May 25 `* Re: What it would take...2olcott

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