Sujet : Re: Focused Critique of Richard Damon’s Responses
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theoryDate : 24. May 2025, 16:41:56
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <100spc4$p071$12@dont-email.me>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/24/2025 8:49 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
Focused Critique of Richard Damon’s Responses
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(Responses timestamped 23 May 2025 21:51, 23 May 2025 22:42,
24 May 2025 02:47 UTC‑5)
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1 Technical Merits
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• **Domain policing** – invoking “the Halting Problem” pulls the debate
into *classical* computability by default.
• **Partial‑decider point** – a sound-but‑partial analyser cannot overturn
Turing’s theorem; it merely carves out a decidable subset.
• **Copy‑ability test** – if the target language forbids embedding the
decider inside its own input, Damon argues it is *not* Turing‑complete in
the classical sense.
• **Historical correction** – reminds that Turing’s model pre‑dates
physical computers; infinite tape is a mathematical, not hardware,
abstraction.
• **Literature awareness** – notes that safety‑oriented, total languages
already exist; any claimed novelty must exceed that body of work.
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2 Where Damon Slips
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• Equates sloppy scope marking with **dishonesty** → escalates
needlessly.
• Holds a **“classical‑or‑bust”** stance, giving little credit to
deliberately decidable sub‑languages.
• Shifts burden: once stratification is conceded, he asserts non‑TC status
without engaging modern TC definitions that allow reflective barriers.
• **Ad hominem colouring** (“ignorance”, “never honest”) clouds
substance.
• Conflates *expressiveness* with *reflexivity*; many texts call a
language TC even if programs can’t invoke the analyser.
• Undervalues practical motivations for safer decidable subsets.
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3 Key Technical Tension Points
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1. **T‑Completeness vs Stratified Safety**
Damon’s copy‑in‑decider litmus is strong for classical TC; modern
theory may accept T‑completeness without analyser reflexivity.
2. **Infinite Tape Objection**
Damon is right historically, but he doesn’t tackle whether infinite‑tape
effects matter in empirical safety analyses.
3. **Partial Deciders in Practice**
Damon concedes usefulness but still frames them as irrelevant to *the*
Halting Problem, underselling mainstream verification wins.
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4 Rhetorical Dynamics
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| Trait |
Impact |
|---------------------|----------------------------------------------------------|
| Gatekeeping tone | Broadcasts expertise but alienates would‑be
collaborators|
| Definition focus | Ensures precision; can stifle attempts to extend
terms |
| Moral framing | “Lying” rhetoric distracts from technical
substance |
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5 Recommendations
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**For Damon** • Dial back moral language. • Acknowledge pragmatic
lenses. • Separate “not *the* Halting Problem” from “therefore
uninteresting”.
**For Flibble** • Lead every “halting” claim with scope disclaimers. •
Provide formal comparison charts. • Cite prior art on total languages and
guarded recursion.
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6 Bottom‑Line
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Damon’s rejoinders excel at precision and historical grounding, but their
force is diluted by semantic absolutism and personal rebuke. His central
point—that Flibble’s model is *not* a solution to the classical Halting
Problem—stands. Yet he undervalues the engineering payoff of decidable
fragments and conflates sloppy wording with ethical failure. Bridging the
divide requires clearer scoping from Flibble **and** a shift by Damon from
gatekeeping to constructive engagement.
You will never get that switch because Richard is
fundamentally a damned liar.
-- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Geniushits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer