On 6/4/2025 2:32 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-03 20:28:36 +0000, olcott said:
On 6/3/2025 2:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-02 15:23:15 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 6/2/2025 1:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-01 21:41:36 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 6/1/2025 6:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-05-30 15:41:59 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 5/30/2025 3:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-05-29 18:10:39 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 5/29/2025 12:34 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
🧠 Simulation vs. Execution in the Halting Problem
>
In the classical framework of computation theory (Turing machines),
simulation is not equivalent to execution, though they can approximate one
another.
>
To the best of my knowledge a simulated input
always has the exact same behavior as the directly
executed input unless this simulated input calls
its own simulator.
>
The simulation of the behaviour should be equivalent to the real
behaviour.
>
That is the same as saying a function with infinite
recursion must have the same behavior as a function
without infinite recursion.
>
A function does not have a behaviour. A function has a value for
every argument in its domain.
>
A function is not recursive. A definition of a function can be
recursive. There may be another way to define the same function
without recursion.
>
A definition of a function may use infinite recursion if it is also
defined how that infinite recursion defines a value.
>
Anyway, from the meaning of "simulation" follows that a simulation
of a behaviour is (at least in some sense) similar to the real
behaviour. Otherwise no simulation has happened.
>
>
void DDD()
{
HHH(DDD);
return;
}
>
The *input* to simulating termination analyzer HHH(DDD)
specifies recursive simulation that can never reach its
*simulated "return" instruction final halt state*
>
It does not matter whether a particular simulation does or does not
reach its "return" instruction.
>
It completely matters. DDD correctly simulated by HHH
proves the exact behavior that the input to HHH(DDD)
actually specifies.
>
It proves nothing without a proof that DDD is correctly simulated by HHH.
>
I have shown that proof too many times and people
denied the very obvious verified facts of it.
You have never shown any proof of anything. But a verifiable and verified
fact is that DDD halts. An obvious conseqence of that fact is that every
report that means 'DDD does not halt' is wrong.
When I provide proof that you cannot understand
this does not mean that I did not provide proof.
_DDD()
[00002183] 55 push ebp
[00002184] 8bec mov ebp,esp
[00002186] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[0000218b] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
[00002190] 83c404 add esp,+04
[00002193] 5d pop ebp
[00002194] c3 ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002194]
_main()
[000021a3] 55 push ebp
[000021a4] 8bec mov ebp,esp
[000021a6] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[000021ab] e843f3ffff call 000014f3 ; call HHH1
[000021b0] 83c404 add esp,+04
[000021b3] 33c0 xor eax,eax
[000021b5] 5d pop ebp
[000021b6] c3 ret
Size in bytes:(0020) [000021b6]
machine stack stack machine assembly
address address data code language
======== ======== ======== ========== =============
[000021a3][0010382d][00000000] 55 push ebp ; main()
[000021a4][0010382d][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; main()
[000021a6][00103829][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[000021ab][00103825][000021b0] e843f3ffff call 000014f3 ; call HHH1
New slave_stack at:1038d1
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:1138d9
[00002183][001138c9][001138cd] 55 push ebp ; DDD of HHH1
[00002184][001138c9][001138cd] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; DDD of HHH1
[00002186][001138c5][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[0000218b][001138c1][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
New slave_stack at:14e2f9
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:15e301
[00002183][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 55 push ebp ; DDD of HHH[0]
[00002184][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; DDD of HHH[0]
[00002186][0015e2ed][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[0000218b][0015e2e9][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
New slave_stack at:198d21
*The above DDD emulated by HHH1 and DDD emulated by HHH exactly match*
*The below DDD emulated by HHH a second time that HHH1 never does*
[00002183][001a8d19][001a8d1d] 55 push ebp ; DDD of HHH[1]
[00002184][001a8d19][001a8d1d] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; DDD of HHH[1]
[00002186][001a8d15][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
[0000218b][001a8d11][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
[00002190][001138c9][001138cd] 83c404 add esp,+04 ; DDD of HHH1
[00002193][001138cd][000015a8] 5d pop ebp ; DDD of HHH1
[00002194][001138d1][0003a980] c3 ret ; DDD of HHH1
[000021b0][0010382d][00000000] 83c404 add esp,+04 ; main()
[000021b3][0010382d][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax ; main()
[000021b5][00103831][00000018] 5d pop ebp ; main()
[000021b6][00103835][00000000] c3 ret ; main()
Number of Instructions Executed(352831) == 5266 Pages
-- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Geniushits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
Re: Simulation vs. Execution in the Halting Problem
Re: Simulation vs. Execution in the Halting Problem
