Re: From the Archives .....

On 24/04/2024 00:44, The Last Doctor wrote:

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

In article <v0881g$1ju4d$2@dont-email.me>,
The True Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

On 22/04/2024 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:

The True Doctor wrote on 21/4/24 10:45 am:

On 21/04/2024 01:21, Blueshirt wrote:

The Doctor wrote:

I go with 4 Doctors taking on Morbius!

>
You can take from that scene whatever you like... it doesn't
change the way the scene was conceived. There is no Doctor Who
bible so whatever works for you and your enjoyment of the show
is fine. We are all free to make our own head-canon.

>
What there is are established facts.

 Implied beliefs, it turns out. Not facts.
 

Established facts about the character and based on the principles of good writing and story telling.

No regenerations existed before

Hartnell as stated by Hartnell in The Tenth Planet and the 1st Doctor
in The Five Doctors.

 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

 

>
Hey, Aggy, in "An Unearthly Child" or any of the other William Hartnell
Episodes, did DoctorBill state that he was the First Incarnation of The
Doctor or that he could, in fact, regenerate (pick a number, any number)
of times at all?? Did he mention that ability at any time during his
reign??

 No.
 

It was implied from the very beginning that the character Hartnell
played was like any other human, other than the fact that he was a
fugitive from another world, as was his biological grand daughter Susan.

 That’s true. Did Aggie stop watching when it was revealed that the Doctor
was an alien with two hearts who could regenerate?
 What a complete retcon and destruction of the character and the show!
Doctor Who must have ended in 1966 when Hartnell regenerated!
 

Revealing that a character always depicted as an alien has an alien biology doesn't change the character themselves.
Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

Or was this "ability" ONLY mentioned AFTER Bill Hartnell had left??

>
His possession of ability to perform bodily renewal is stated by
Hartnell in at the end of The Tenth Planet, as is the fact that he did
not know if it would work since he'd never had to perform it before,
just before he is shown to rejuvenate himself. Troughton was intended to
be a de-aged version of Hartnell.

 That’s all a load of horsefeathers. Hartnell says nothing about his ability
to perform a renewal or whether he’d ever done it before.
 

It's stated in the Novelization.

Here’s everything the Doctor says at the end of The Tenth Planet. He’s just
been rescued from captivity in the Cyberman ship.
 DOCTOR: What did you say, my boy? It's all over. It's all over. That's what
you said. No, but it isn't all over. It's far from being all over.
BEN: What are you taking about?
DOCTOR: I must get back to the Tardis immediately!
POLLY: All right, Doctor.
DOCTOR: Yes, I must go now.
BEN: Aren't we going to go back to say goodbye or anything?
DOCTOR: No. No, I must go at once.
BEN: Oh well, you better have this. We don't want you catching your death
of cold.
(Ben hands the Doctor his cloak.)
DOCTOR: Ah, yes. Thank you. It's good. Keep warm.
(The Doctor leaves.)
 Near the start of the episode he says everything else that is said about
his bodily condition:
 POLLY: What's happened to you, Doctor?
DOCTOR: Oh, I'm not sure, my dear. Comes from an outside influence. Unless
this old body of mine is wearing a bit thin.
POLLY: What do you mean, wearing a bit thin?
DOCTOR: Oh, don't worry child, don't worry, don't worry.
 No mention of renewal or how many times it’s happened. At all.
 

It's in the Novelization of the story.

And Pat Troughton was never intended to be a de-aged Hartnell. In The Power

Yes he was. He was almost exactly the same height and facial shape as Hartnell. The intention of the writers was to illustrate bodily renewal which was achieved biologically for the Doctor, in contrast to the bodily renewal practised by the Cybermen, which was electromechanical and took away their emotions. That was the entire basis of the story of The Tenth Planet.

of the Doctor it’s made clear right away that he’s a completely different

You mean Power of the Daleks, not that degenerate Jodie Whittaker crap, right?

personality and Ben has great difficulty believing he even is the Doctor.
 

He's a younger man so wants to behave like a young man, without emotional inhibitors attached to him as those that were attached to the Cybermen which stopped them rejecting their unnatural implants and replacement parts.

When Troughton is interrogated by the Time Lords at the end of The War
Games no past forms of the Doctor are shown except those of Troughton
and Hartnell.

 As far as I can recall no past forms of the Doctor are shown at all.
There’s discussion of his actions and the Doctor shows mental images of
recent foes: starting feebly with Quarks and Yeti, moving on to Ice
Warriors, Cybermen and Daleks.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

 

In The Three Doctors it is also demonstrated that there
are were only ever 3 incarnations of the Doctor at this time, and
Hartnell was the earliest.

 That is correct.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, the Time Lords
don’t actually remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway. So
they would think there were only three.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

Same goes for The Five Doctors.

 True.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

Same goes for
the Doctor's memories in The Family of Blood.

 True.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

And Aggie missed out the Next Doctor.
 

That too. The only memories and images of the Doctor that are depicted are those from Hartnell to Tennant.

Same goes for The Eleventh
Hour.

 True.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

Same goes for Listen.

 Listen only has a scene supposedly from the Doctor’s childhood.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway, and it’s possible
that regeneration started a a child.
 Or that lots of Listen didn’t really happen.
 

And that Skaro was never blown up by the Hand of Omega, and the Movellans were actually created by the Daleks themselves in order to fool Davros as to the true location of Skaro, which was recreated from different planet and Davros moved to it in order to fake his rescue and his transpiration of Earth, as was the Movellan virus.
Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

Same goes for Twice Upon A Time.

 True.
 But all these recollections are pulled from the Doctor’s memories.
 Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.

>

>
Exactly!
>
Chibnall's revisions must be retconned!

 As shown above, Chibnall’s Timeless Child narrative can be made to be
completely consistent with the entire history of the show. It was crafted
that way.
 It’s awfully convoluted and contrived, and completely unnecessary. But it
hasn’t harmed the show.
 So be like Elsa, and let it go.
 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John Peel, for far less.
--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw
"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." -William Shatner