Re: The Return of Michael Monkey

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 14:50:07 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 13:07:49 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>

On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:48:09 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 7:30:46 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:30:33 +0000, Michael Monkey Peakbrain akd
"HarryLime" wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 1:56:15 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:58:18 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MMP) aka
"HarryLime" wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 2:20:10 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:29:37 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MMP) aka
"HarryLime" wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:07:47 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:47:06 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MMP) aka
"HarryLime" wrote:

>

Not only are Team Donkey's members not my enemies, but I see no reason
why anyone should need allies to engage with them.

>
LOL! Remember what happened the last time you your act solo
rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s. You tried there to pose as the genius
with the encyplopedic knowledge of 1950s music, but (even though your
knowledge of 1950s music is more extensive than your knowledge of
poetry)
you failed miserably, got your ass kicked and had to come here to start
over.
Even if you had the brains of a chimp, you'd be smart enough to realize
you
needed a team this time.

>
I left the 50s group for numerous reasons, the most significant being
that it had become a thoroughly unproductive time sap.  I had learned
all that I could from it, and the arguments were becoming repetitive
rehashes that served no valuable purpose for me to pursue.  Since
leaving, I have completed and published numerous books (including a 50s
music book), and a monthly poetry magazine.

>
You made the right decision; it is better to put your efforts into
something more permanent. Please do the same for aapc.
>

And, if I felt that I needed a team to participate in this group, I
would have sided with PJR, Horatio, and Gwyneth, who were infinitely
more knowledgeable,  and better educated than those of "Team Dunce"
(which at the time consisted of you and your Donkey).

>
Like Corey, you did; but PJR, the elitist snob that he was, wanted
nothing to do with either of you; so it was either leave or join the
opposition. So you joined the opposition, and helped get rid of him,
then tried to replace him.
Unfortunately, you misunderstood and thought the opposition wanted to
run aapc themselves. I can't speak for the other two, but I don't want
anyone to run it.
>

You nailed it again, George.

>
Thanks. PJR's team was quite happy to take in both Corey and Michael as
allies, but PJR wanted nothing to do with them.

>
You're delusional, George.
>
PJR never had a team (unless one counts his friends from his
alt.net.kooks --but that's a different matter which I'll discuss below).

Nonsense, MMP. At that time he still had two alt.koos - Aratzio, who
finally moved on, and Cujo de Sockpupput, who moved with you to your
facebook group - but he also had the "Shit People" - Gamble, Houstman,
sherman, and Evans - and the three women they recruited onto aapc:
Karla, Gwyneth, and Cythera. (Out of deference to your tender
sensibilities, I'm using their chosen identifiers rather than my own.)

PJR considered himself to be one of "the regulars."  The regulars were
actual poets that Will Donkey had not yet driven away.  They were not a
tean, and he was not their leader.

Some of his "regulars" were actual poets (like all the ones I've given
above) - some of them were
They weren't his flunkies, in the way Jim and NG were your flunkies; but
they were his echo chamber and his back-up flamers. It isn't necessary
that a team be composed only of flunkies. It's probably true that they
would have preferred to play poet and let PJR protect them from their

PJR coined the term "Team Dunce" to signify you and Will - who he
considered to be illiterate trolls.

He also put Chuck Lysaght and Tom Bishop on that list, before their
deaths; and various other people over the years. But it's ridiculous; we
never never acted as a team in any way. Will, for instance, doesn't do
back-up flaming; he only responds to attacks on his own threads. The
only person I know whom I can remember doing back-up flaming for me is
you; othwerwise I've been on my own here. "Team Dunce" was just PJR's
"enemies list" and nothing else.

The "kook" site was created to expose Usenet kooks in a humorous manner.
 "Wranglers" would engage in discussions with people in various Usenet
groups, searching for racists and assorted nutjobs whose buttons were
easily pressed.  They would goad these "kooks" into having a "meltdown"
online, then cross-post their meltdown to alt.kooks.  The other members
would then join in, creating further meltdowns.  They would also give
out various "awards" to the various "kooks."

I'm aware of that, and I've written about the same thing; it's in their
archives. By the time I arrived, though, members of the group were
priaarily doing the same thing to non-kooss (like the lawyer who later
took them to court and ended the group as a significant player).
What PJR did, when he got control of the group as FNVW, was bring them
into RAP and aapc, and use them against anyone he considered an enemy -
his "enemies list" as I said.

Since you and Will were considered to be "kooks," PJR cross-posted your
"meltdowns" to alt.kooks, which brought some of his fellow members (like
Cujo and Aratzio) here.

Maybe he did consider everyone he used alt.kooks against to be a "kook,"
but that includes a lot of people who obviously weren't. Either he was
the delusional one, or he was misusing the group.

So he decided to play
elitist snob. Of course, he didn't reject them because they weren't
"good" or "amsart" enough to be on his team - if he only wanted good
writers and smart thinkers, he wouldn't have had nonentities like Cujo
de Sockpuppet on it.

>
Whether PJR would have been willing to take Corey and I as allies is a
moot point, as only PJR would know whether it was true.

All one has to do is read his posts to and about both of you; he
considered the two of you as equally illiterate and kooky. That's how he
treated anyone who wasn't an ally. Most of the people he treated that
way left - he "drove them away" as Will puts it. Will, of course, never
left, which is why he attracted more and more of their heat.

He did attempt to steer me away from "Team Dunce," wondering aloud how I
would feel when I realized that my "teammates" were illiterate buffoons.
 Unfortunately, I mistook PJR's behavior as abusive, whereas he was he
was actually retaliating against the group trolls.

Of course he was deliberately abusive to you: he called you names,
flamed your poetry, and even called you an illiterate buffoon when it
suited him. Hw sis nor xonaiswe you (or Corey) to be a poet, and he did
not want you as an ally. Deal with it.

I have since offered a public apology to PJR.

And his reply was? __________________________

He wanted meat puppets, yes men who'd be willing to
stay in subordinate role, not independent thinkers.

>
Again, a moot point, as only PJR would know what PJR wanted.

It's stupid to say you can't judge a person's thoughts by what they do.
You, for instance, inferred from his flaming of Will and me that he was
giving you friendly advice (which is silly, as he was in no way your
friend). Judging a person's thoughts by their actions is in fact more
reliable than judging them by what they tell you about them.

I can, however, state with certainty that he did not want anyone to be
defending, supporting, and further enabling the trolls -- which is what
I had unwittingly done.

Of course a team of trolls, like he successfully aseembled and you
copied with your Team Monkey, don't want rival teams. Their preferred
M.O. is to attack one person at a time.

>

Independent thinker
wouls sooner or later disagree with him and challenge his opinions, with
the result that the fighting would move into his team, and it would
cease to act as a team.

>
Again, PJR never had a "team."  He considered Gwyneth and Horatio to be
"regulars," but they were obviously independent thinkers, and largely
ignored the trolls (Team Dunce).
>
PJR lumped me in with "Team Dunce" because I was openly trolling him and
his friends from alt.kooks.  (Again, I had swallowed your story that
alt.kooks were a group of Usenet "thugs" who bullied and harassed Usenet
posters for fun.  You'd actually claimed that they did it to blackmail
them, but even I was never *that* gullible.)
>
As to "playing the snob," I fully believe that PJR is a literary snob
who peppers his verses with snippets of Greek and Latin, and continually
alludes to classical music.  Not that I have any problem with such
snobbery.  Poetry is no longer a popular artform, but one that plays to
intellectuals and academics -- such "elitist" allusions are merely a
form of catering to one's audience.

Good; I'm glad that our conclusions agree about something. The only
disagreement I have is with your last line. Sych elitist behavior is
primarly a way to try to convince your antagonist of your superiority to
him - the effect on the audience is secondary.

It's the same reason that, for all his trying, Corey never made it onto
Team Mokey, either.

>
Were there such a thing as "Team Monkey".

As I said, it's as real (and as imaginary) as "Team Donkey"). Team
Monkey was you, Jim, and NG - you formed it in in 2017 to attack Stephan
(whom NG was trolling) and Will (whom Jim was by then trolling). I see
that I'll have to write about it more. But there's no reason to bury it
down here in a thread no one's likely to see; I'll have to put it on a
stand-alone thread, just like your misrepresenttions of /April/
magazine.

Corey would have been welcomed > as a member.

By you, I'm sure; but Jim hated him, and NG (who supported Jim) didn't
want him either. You couldn't have both of them. And, as I said, Corey
would not have been content to be a mere flunkie, but would have ended
up

But there was never any such thing as "Team Monkey."  What
you call "Team Monkey" was simply the latest group of "regulars" -- a
group of individuals who acted independently of one another.

One could call you and Jim "regulars" because he'd been posting his
poetry here forever, and you'd been posting yours - but it's silly to
call NG one. They were here to troll Stephan and nothing else.

The only
thing the so-called "Team" had in common was their dislike of the
practices of Will Donkey and his socks, who buried any legitimate,
poetry-related conversations under an endless barrage of mutual
slurp-posts and spam.

Now, that may have been your own reason for disliking Will - that he was
burying your "work" -- or it may have just been a story you cooked up to
give Jim a reason to troll and flame Will. I've seen you repeat is to
often that I suspect it's the latter.

Corey, btw, is a participating member of the Official AAPC FB Group, and

has several poems appearing in our forthcoming year-end issue.

As I said, I'll check the back of your book covers later, if you'll give
me the time. As is, I'm spending too much time correcting your
misinformation, and don't intend to go off on any fact-checking projects
while you continue your  flaming of the few AAPC regulars left here.