Re: Shattered / Will Dockery

On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 18:46:02 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:

>
Shattered
>
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
>
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
>
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
>
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
>
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
>
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School
newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
>
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1

***
[Comments on "Shattered" moved from another thread]:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:14:33 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 14:01:41 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 4:10:42 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 1:15:22 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>

On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 4:36:19 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:

>
Here are the Collected Poems of Robert Creeley in 2 volumes:
>
https://dokumen.pub/selected-poems-of-robert-creeley-19452005-9780520940949-9780520251960.html
>
>
https://dokumen.pub/the-collected-poems-of-robert-creeley-19752005-9780520941670.html

>
No, Lying Michael, those links are not "the Collected Poems of Robert
Creeley in 2 volumes". The second one is a link to volume 2 (/Collected
Poems 1975-2005/), but the first one is a link to a /Selected Poems/
(Selected Poems 1945-2005/).
>
Not finding the poem in the your second link would show only that the
poem was not published after 1974, while not finding it using your first
link would show only it was not included in a a Selected Poems.
>
What you needed to do is what you claimed to be doing; providing links
to both the first and second volumes of his Collected Poems.
>
At least you've provided a link to the a site that one can crawl around
looking for that missing first volume, so I guess that's something.

>
I'm done searching for it, George.

>
Fortunately, your "colleague" covered your ass and found a copy of the
Collected Poems you didn't, so (barring my checking what they found)
they can say that the search is complete; neither of you could find a
copy of the poem in Creeley's Collected Poems. Which doesn't mean that
the poem doesn't exist; only that there's no second-hand evidence that
it exists.

>
AFAICS you charge of plagiarism hinges on the following:

Actually, George Dance didn't exactly make a plagiarism accusation, he
simply pointed out that the first lines of both Nancy Gene and Robert
Creeley are very similar.
He did state "some people" might call it plagiarism, or words to that
effect.

1) the alleged similarity between the two poems (which, based solely on
the opening line of Creeley's poem that you apparently "quoted" from
your "trustworthy source's" memory), and

Right, as far as we know just two similar opening lines.

2) the probability of NancyGene's having been aware of, and had access
to.
>
Even if the poem does miraculously turn up in your copy of the book, I
fully doubt that it will meet either of the criteria of items 1) and 2).

I for one am looking forward to reading the Robert Creeley poem
eventually.

\the next step (which I've already begun, though it will take time to
complete) is to get some first-had evidence; to look at the book I was
told it appeared in, and see if the poem is there.

Yes, I see a copy of the Robert Creeley book with the poem is in a
library near me, or rather about 30 miles away.
I might go to the library and read the Robert Creeley poetry for my own
personal enjoyment, but I'll not reveal the title or the contents until
George Dance is ready to report on his findings.

That seems like a long way to go to prove a point/win an argument --

For poetry lovers it's not that much, enjoyable, in fact.

especially when the chances of the poem's existence are slim,

We'll just have to wait and see about that

of its actually having been plagiarized, virtually nonexistent.

Similar first line, actually.

But as I've noted in the past, you'll do anything to win an argument
(and still end up losing it).

I've read you say the same about yourself, Pendragon.

Either post the entire poem (or at least the first four lines) here, or
provide a link.

I'm sure George Dance will, when the time is right.

Once I've completed that first-hand examination, I'll give my results.
If the poem is there, or not, I'll post to that effect. I certainly
won't be posting a copyrighted poem in its entirety; you should know me
better than that.

Fair enough, looking forward to reading about your findings.

If you're attempting to show that plagiarism occurred, I'm afraid you'll
have to.  At very least, you should make a copy available to NancyGene
or me via email.

The Robert Creeley book is available in 916 libraries around the world,
so after George Dance posts his findings and the title is made
available, any of us can check out the poetry book from their local
library through the interlibrary loan program.
Go to the World Cat website for full details.

The most likely outcome (assuming that such a poem exists) is that there
is some, superficial similarity between the opening line of each
(although they are describing very different things).   has
reposted on of his own poems that has seconds piling up on the floor.

Yes, my Shattered poem, written in 1976, published in 1977.
(Recently reposted on this newsgroup)

Did plagiarize Creeley's poem as well?

No, in 1976 I hadn't read any poetry yet by Robert Creeley.

He might not have mentioned newspapers, but the subject of his sentence

"The seconds have piled up at the floor, lost here in some other guy's
past..."

is an increment of time (as is Creeley's), whereas that of NancyGene's
is memories.

Mine also touches on memory, "lost here in some other guy's past... "
HTH and HAND.