Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:38:26 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:08:51 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 18:22:57 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:11:37 +0000, Will-Dockery wrote:
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Victor H. wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
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Michael Pendragon wrote:
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:27:52 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
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Allen Ginsberg's poem shows no pedophilia as far as I can tell.
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What you claim to see in the poem seems to be from your own imagination,

Pendragon.

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Says the
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No, says several legitimate sources, which day that "Please

Master" was written by Allen Ginsberg for Neal Cassady, a grown man.

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HTH and HAND.

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Did Pendragon ever admit he was wrong....?

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You know Pendragon never admits when he's wrong.

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It doesn't matter if the poem was written for Neal Cassady (a man
roughly 1/3 Ginsberg's age), as nothing in the actual poems specifies
this.

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Wrong again, Harry.
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Allen Ginsberg and Neal Cassady were both born in 1926.
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<Crickets continue as Harry Lime continues to ignore this correction.>

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I have already addressed it

Okay, thanks, I missed that post earlier.
I'll read it now.
😏

I'm not talking about the history, Donkey.  So there's no need to keep
repeating yourself.
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The poem does not mention Neal Cassady's name.  It is addressed to
someone known only as "Master."  The poem is therefore not about Neal
Cassady.
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This doesn't mean that the poem wasn't *inspired by* Ginsberg's
relationship with Cassady.
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A poem is composed of words.  A proper reading of a poem must confine
itself solely to the words.  If the poem doesn't mention Neal Cassady,
then you cannot say that the poem is about Ginsberg's relationship with
Cassady.
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The poem is about a "Master" and IIRC an unidentified speaker.
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Approaching the poem on its own terms, I read it as depicting the
homosexual BDSM relationship between a Dom and a Sub.  I also read it as
hinting at a relationship between a Master and his Apprentice.  Both
readings are justified by the poem's text, and both can easily be seen
to coexist.
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Any critical reading of the poem will necessarily pick up on the
Man-Boy/Master-Apprentice/Sub-Dom implications, and draw the same
conclusions as myself.
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I'm glad to learn that Cassady and Ginsberg were roughly the same age.
Good for them.
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The poem, otoh, is still strongly implying a Man-Boy relationship.
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[END QUOTE]
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This statement appears in *this* thread.  Had you not been in such a
tizzy (firing off a half dozen posts in a row), you might have actually
seen it.
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