Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:00:31 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 8:21:53 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:38:26 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:08:51 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 18:22:57 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:11:37 +0000, Will-Dockery wrote:
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Victor H. wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
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Michael Pendragon wrote:
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:27:52 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
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Allen Ginsberg's poem shows no pedophilia as far as I can tell.
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What you claim to see in the poem seems to be from your own imagination,

Pendragon.

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Says the
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No, says several legitimate sources, which day that "Please

Master" was written by Allen Ginsberg for Neal Cassady, a grown man.

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HTH and HAND.

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Did Pendragon ever admit he was wrong....?

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You know Pendragon never admits when he's wrong.

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It doesn't matter if the poem was written for Neal Cassady (a man
roughly 1/3 Ginsberg's age), as nothing in the actual poems specifies
this.

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Wrong again, Harry.
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Allen Ginsberg and Neal Cassady were both born in 1926.
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<Crickets continue as Harry Lime continues to ignore this correction.>

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The poem does not mention Neal Cassady's name.  It is addressed to
someone known only as "Master."  The poem is therefore not about Neal
Cassady.
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This doesn't mean that the poem wasn't *inspired by* Ginsberg's
relationship with Cassady.

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As if is said to be.
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A poem is composed of words.  A proper reading of a poem must confine
itself solely to the words.  If the poem doesn't mention Neal Cassady,
then you cannot say that the poem is about Ginsberg's relationship with
Cassady.

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Beat poetry experts have stated this is a fact, and Allen Ginsberg may
have possibly revealed this as well.

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It's as if we're speaking two different languages.  I'm speaking
English.  Perhaps Dr. Schwimmer can translate for you.

You're trying to say Allen Ginsberg had sex with people younger than 18,
I'm saying no evidence exists of your claims.

The poem is about a "Master" and IIRC an unidentified speaker.
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Approaching the poem on its own terms, I read it as depicting the
homosexual BDSM relationship between a Dom and a Sub.  I also read it as
hinting at a relationship between a Master and his Apprentice.  Both
readings are justified by the poem's text, and both can easily be seen
to coexist.
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Any critical reading of the poem will necessarily pick up on the
Man-Boy/Master-Apprentice/Sub-Dom implications, and draw the same
conclusions as myself.
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I'm glad to learn that Cassady and Ginsberg were roughly the same age.
Good for them.

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Yes, glad to clear up your confusion.
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The poem, otoh, is still strongly implying a Man-Boy relationship.
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[END QUOTE]
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This statement appears in *this* thread

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Yes, I found it earlier.

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Bottom line is the youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known to have
been involved with was an 18-19 year old man.
HTH and HAND.