Re: The Lime sock on Allen Ginsberg and NAMBLA

HarryLime wrote:

Will Dockery wrote:
>

I am publishing an AAPC poetry journal featuring award-winning poets.

>
Can you say vanity press?

>
A vanity press charges a "reading" or "submission" fee.

>
Do you pay in contributors copies?

>
Almost.  I don't receive any money for them.  They're sold at cost.

Sure sounds like vanity press to me.

So... no.
>

After Jim and Stephan became engaged in a prolonged flamewar, both on
and
off the Sampler, the second thing you did was start flooding the group
with
a nasty, libelous document that NG had written.

>

Oh yes, the last resort, flood the newsgroup with your lies and
misrepresentations.

>

George Dance saw it differently.

>

Grim times for the poetry newsgroup indeed.

>
Pick didn't belong here.

>
There's no guidelines on who we "allow" to be here.
>

Stephan Pickering knew poetry and made many good poetry posts.
>
Pretty good poetry, as I recall.
>
Stephan Pickering has written some interesting poems over the

years.

>

The third thing you did, a month or so of that, when Jim and Stephan
were thoroughly
engaged with each other, you went deep diving outside the group for
information on NAMBLA, and found a quotation from Allan Ginsberg
("I have never had sex with anyone under 15"

>
The youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known to have was the 18-19
year old man

>

Can you link to these alleged sources?

>

And later it turns out the youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known
to have was an 18-19 year old man.

An interview with the young man was reposted elsewhere on the poetry
newsgroups.

Can you link to any real evidence of this?

>
See above.

Don you have a link?

No, he was 18 and then turned 19.
>

It depends on the source.

>
Unless something new has surfaced, there's zero evidence.

>
IIRC, Ginsberg tacitly admitted it in one or more interviews.

Non that I've ever read, but I haven't read every interview with Allen
Ginsberg.
Can you post the link to that interview?

There's an interview with the fellow, I don't remember his name right
now.

The interview was reposted in another thread, the person was 18-19 years
old and he was the one who pursued Allen Ginsberg, not the other way
around.

posting here, calling Ginsberg a "pedophile" (or predator);

>
Which, from the evidence, wasn't true, as shown above.
>
Again, more on this later.

>

 and then
when others objected to that (like Stephan, Will, or myself), you began
calling those people "pedophiles" as well.
>
That's when the bullshit from Pendragon began to get heavy.

>

Most likely Jim had condemned Ginsberg as
a child molester

>

Which wasn't actually true, by all evidence.
>
Not statements but actual evidence.
>
I looked twenty years ago and found no actual evidence, more on this
later.

>

Ginsberg was a supporter and member of the North American Man/Boy Love
Association (NAMBLA), a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization
in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws and
legalize sexual relations between adults and children.[124][citation
needed] Saying that he joined the organization "in defense of free
speech",[125] Ginsberg stated: "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics,
witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance ...
I'm a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too—everybody does, who has a
little humanity".[126] In 1994, Ginsberg appeared in a documentary on
NAMBLA called Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys (playing on the gay male
slang term 'chickenhawk'), in which he read a "graphic ode to
youth".[124] He read his poem "Sweet Boy, Gimme Yr Ass" from the book
Mind Breaths.[127]

>
More on this later, see below.

>

In her 2002 book Heartbreak, Andrea Dworkin claimed Ginsberg had
ulterior motives

>

There was a bitter feud between Ginsberg and this person, I don't
remember the details but Dworkin was said to have no evidence that
Ginsberg had actually made those statements.

>

I'll have to research this again, since I haven't read the details in
over twenty years.

>
The general consensus is that Ginsberg was openly gay, and openly
attracted to underage boys.  Whether he actually had sex with them is
unknown

The youngest known sex partner Allen Ginsberg had was 18-19 years old
and the person stated in the interview that he pursued Allen Ginsberg,
it wasn't Ginsberg's idea.

and Pickering (who worshipped Ginsberg) spazzed.

>

That is a fair summary of what I just said, though you left out that you
(and Jim)
were calling Stephan a child molester as well. No one appreciates being
called names like that by cowardly trolls on the internet.
>
Which led to Tit for Tat behavior over time.

>

At that point Pendragon and Senetto were trying any dirty trick to drive
Stephan Pickering away from this newsgroup.
>
And so it goes.
>
I doubt you'll argue this, Pendragon, since you once bragged about doing
this in the 1950s music group.

>
I bragged about torturing the living bejeezus out of PhillyGuy for fun
and amusement.  I never made up anything to win an argument there.

In what way did you "torture" this Philly Guy?