Re: The Lime sock on Stephan Pickering and NAMBLA

On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:53:30 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>

On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:37:49 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>

On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:25:52 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>

On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 23:49:17 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>

On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 15:36:43 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:06:42 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 3:37:09 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>

I am publishing an AAPC poetry journal featuring award-winning poets.

>
Can you say vanity press?

>
A vanity press charges a "reading" or "submission" fee.

>
Do you pay in contributors copies?

>
Almost.  I don't receive any money for them.  They're sold at cost.

>
So, like I said, your publication is basically vanity press, poets
published in your book have to pay to see a copy of the book their
poetry is published in.
>
Good luck with your vanity press venture.

>
Wrong, Donkey. Very few small press publications provide comp copies for
payment these days.  Indie press has undergone a great many changes
since the 1980s.  There aren't any Xexored, stapled "zines" anymore.
>
The small press is now either an e-zine or print-on-demand.  And I've
yet to see a free print-on-demand comp copy.
>
"AYoS" is both a free monthly e-zine and an annual print-on-demand that
is sold at cost.  The annual publication (a paperback book) is a "year's
best" collection.  The monthly e-zine is no different from any other
e-zine.
>
>

So... no.
>

After Jim and Stephan became engaged in a prolonged flamewar

>
Eventually dragging everyone in.

>
So, people get dragged in to flame wars.  That's all part of the many
joys of Usenet (sarcasm alert).
>
>

>

off the Sampler, the second thing you did was start flooding the group
with
a nasty, libellous document that NG had written.

>
Lest we forget ^^^

>
We already have.
>
I certainly saw no such "document."
>
Please be so good as to explain WTF you're prattling on about.
>
>

>

Oh yes, the last resort, flood the newsgroup with your lies and
misrepresentations.

>
Exactly, nailed it.

>
Nonsense.
>
I suggest you look at the list of threads currently at the top of the
feed and count the number that were actually started by me. [HINT: 0]
>
Then count the number started by you, Jordy, or Dance.
>
You might also want to take note of how many of these threads are
sporting titles like "NastyGoon Lifts a Line" or "The Lime sock on
Stephan Pickering and NAMBLA."
>
If anyone is flooding the newsgroup with lies and misrepresentations
it's George Dance.
>
>

>

There was no such "libellous[sic]" document

>
George Dance saw it differently.

>
He certainly spelled it differently.

>
George Dance got his point across, spelling lames notwithstanding.

>
No, Donkey, he didn't.  His thread was titled "NastyGoon Lifts a Line."
No matter how much he may backpedal as to whether or not he technically
accused her of plagiarism in the body of the post [HINT: He did.], the
thread's title should remove any and all doubt as to his intention.
>

>

Grim times for the poetry newsgroup indeed.

>

There's no guidelines on who we "allow" to be here on a Usenet
newsgroup.
>
Stephan Pickering knew poetry and made many good poetry posts.

>

Pretty good poetry, as I recall.
Stephan Pickering has written some interesting poems over the years.

>

The third thing you did, a month or so of that, when Jim and Stephan
were thoroughly
engaged with each other, you went deep diving outside the group for
information on NAMBLA, and found a quotation from Allan Ginsberg
("I have never had sex with anyone under 15"

>
Under 18-19, we now know.

>
Again, Donkey, I have provided you with links that state otherwise.  You
can believe what you want to, but there is a great deal of evidence to
the contrary.
>

>

The youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known to have was the 18-19
year old man

>

And later it turns out the youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known
to have was an 18-19 year old man.

>

He was 18 and then turned 19.
Unless something new has surfaced, there's zero evidence.

>
IIRC, Ginsberg tacitly admitted it in one or more interviews.
>

There's an interview with the fellow, I don't remember his name right
now.

>

posting here, falsely calling Ginsberg a "pedophile" (or predator);

>
Which, from the evidence, wasn't true, as shown above.

>
Again, more on this later.

>

 and then

when others objected to that (like Stephan, Will, or myself), you began
calling those people "pedophiles" as well.

>
Harry/Pendragon has apparently forgotten that he began this line of name
calling.

>
Lie.
>
Pickles *said* that he'd statutorily raped two 14-year old girls.
Pickles said that there should be *no* legal age restrictions.  Pickles
said that the only reason he wouldn't recommend having a sexual
relationship with someone under the age of thirteen was because younger
children are unable to commit to a long term relationship and *the
adult* would end up getting hurt.  Pickles said that incest is
culturally accepted in many countries and that those of us who are
opposed to it have been duped by "Nazrim paradigms."  Pickles said that
he went to NAMBLA meetings, NAMBLA conventions, and took NAMBLA members
to dinner.
>
In light of the above, my labeling Pickles a "pedophile" was not a
matter of "name calling."  It was a matter of *fact* based on Pickles'
own admissions.
>
>

>

That's when the bullshit from Pendragon began to get heavy.

>
And hot progressively worse.

>
Lie.
>
There is no accusation one can make that is worse than that of
"pedophile."  Pickles was one by his own accounting.  Pickles called me
one (playing George's game of Tit for Tat).
>
The only acceleration in the flame war came upon the discovery of the
Ackerman letters which proved that Pickles' entire life story (as he'd
told it) had been a lie.
>
>

>

Most likely Jim had falsely condemned Ginsberg as
a child molester

>
Which wasn't actually true, by all evidence.

>
Not statements but actual evidence.
>
I looked twenty years ago and found no actual evidence, more on this
later.

>

I'll have to research this again, since I haven't read the details in
over twenty years.

>

and Pickering (who worshipped Ginsberg) spazzed.

>
That is a fair summary of what I just said, though you left out that you
(and Jim)
were calling Stephan a child molester as well. No one appreciates being
called names like that by cowardly trolls on the internet.

>
Which led to Tit for Tat behavior over time.
Again, I remember that.

>

At that point Pendragon and Senetto were trying any dirty trick to drive
Stephan Pickering away from this newsgroup.
>
And so it goes.

>
I doubt you'll argue this, Pendragon, since you once bragged about doing
this in the 1950s music group.

>
I never made any such boast

>
I don't remember the details but Bruce and Diane still go ballistic if
your name comes up, due to your years of malicious personal attacks and
trolling on the 1950s music Usenet newsgroup.

>
I considered Bruce to be a friend. We often chatted via Messenger (or
some similar platform).
>
Our friendship ended over an incident that I really had nothing to do
with.  Sharx, who trolled the group, had become an ally of mine.  Sharx
made an unfortunate remark about Diane's looks that Bruce said had her
in tears.  Diane had been battling cancer at the time, but hadn't told
anyone so Sharx had no way of knowing this.  Bruce demanded that I stop
all interaction with Sharx as a result.  I suggested to Sharx that he
apologize, but refused to shun him, or anyone else, at Bruce's say so.
>
That, AFAIK, is the extent of it.
>
>

I bragged about torturing the living bejeezus out of PhillyGuy for fun
and amusement.  I never made up anything to win an argument there.

>
You made things up about Philly Guy though, correct?

>
Nothing serious.
>
Philly Guy wrote a "poem" about Dennis (who I still consider to be a
friend).  He challenged Dennis to write one about him -- and seemed to
be extending his challenge to all comers.  My bad.
>
Anyhoo, I wrote the infamous "Gerbil Pome" in his honor:
>
"Here comes Tom from the city of brotherly love
Inserting his hand in a rubbery glove
Then with finger in hole, he does swish it about
Trying to wrestle the young gerbil out."
>
I didn't see how anyone could take that seriously, but Philly Guy did.
He started writing long, incoherent, run-on rants in which he accused me
of being devil worshiping Nazi and every other terrible thing he could
think of.
>
So I wrote him another poem.
>
He went postal again.
>
So I wrote him another one.
>
This went on until I decided to try something new:  I made a post using
a fake account ("Phi11yGuy" -- the same as his, only I'd replaced the
lowercase ells with ones).
>
He immediately went ballistic x 1,000.  He even went so far as to "kill"
of his "PhillyGuy" Usener name, and adopting a brand new one.
>
This was a game-changer.
>
From that point on, I'd let him get used to his new identity, then make
another fake post by him, causing him to kill of his new identity as
well.
>
What can I say?  I'm sadistic.
>
Anyway, I'd make totally ridiculous posts about him to set him off.
Kind of like how mentioning Michael Cook would set you off -- only much,
much worse.
>

I researched, and posted, historical sources for every argument I made.
In fact, I got so good at researching 50s music, that I eventually wrote
a 2 volume book on the topic:
>
https://www.amazon.com/MUSIC-Definitive-History-American-Popular/dp/B08D4VRR83/ref
>
https://www.amazon.com/Music-Two-Definitive-American-1964-1964/dp/B08F6CGF5S?ref

>
That looks really interesting, actually

>
Thank you.  I'd really like to expand it some day -- but it just takes
up too much time.  IOW: I can't work on it and write/publish/create
videos at the same time.

>
I'll be at the library Monday so I'll see about ordering your books.

>
I'm glad to hear it.  Thank you.
>

1) Orthodox Jews who
arrange marriages for their children usually go to a matchmaker; 2) they
would also ensure that their daughter had a chaperone whenever she and
Pickles were together; 3) they would not have had any reason for wanting
to bring a penniless  boy whose violent, alcoholic father had been shot
by his mother-in-law into their family; 4) they most certainly would
*NOT* under any circumstances, have fixed her up with a non-Jew. (This
was long before Pick's alleged self-conversion.)  Pick's father *may*
have been Jewish (Pick never said), but Jewish identity is determined
along matriarchal lines

>
That's why Zod isn't really considered a Jew, although his family on his
father's side is German Jewish.
>
I think he suffered a lot of angst in his youth, looking Jewish but with
his Irish Catholic mother (from the Deep South at that) he never really
felt he fit in with the little New York Jews that were the main
population in his neighborhood of Buffalo NY.
>
Then when his family moved here in 1983 he felt alienated because the
locals DID see him as a New York Yankee Jew type.
>
42 years later and Zod seems more Southern than I do sometimes.

>
There are plenty of Jewish children in NY who are only half Jewish (my
own, for example).  The "little New York Jews" [sic] can be anything
from Chassidic to reform.  Reform Jews certainly wouldn't have cared if
 mother was Irish or from the South.  Unless his parents sent
him to a Jewish school, he would have easily blended in with all the
other kids.
>
--

>
I think he did, basically, but had self conscious moments.
>
Anyway, this is Zod's story so I should just let him tell it if he wants
to.
>
I told him the newsgroup is getting lively again when I spoke with him
last night so he might already be lurking.

>
Don't get your hopes up.  NancyGene and I are both waiting for the
arrival of George's mysterious book.  Neither of us has any plans on
remaining here.
>
The endless arguments are too big of a time-suck.  I've made more posts
here today (and much, much longer ones) than I do in two weeks (or
longer) in the Facebook Group.  And I have poetry to write.
>
--