Re: the future long term financial apocalypse of the USA

Titus G wrote:

On 23/05/24 09:24, William Hyde wrote:

D wrote:

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On Tue, 21 May 2024, William Hyde wrote:
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D wrote:

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On Mon, 20 May 2024, William Hyde wrote:
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D wrote:
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The only regulation that is necessary for two people to transact
is what they agree upon.

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This being  a science fiction newsgroup, let's consider your
decisions when you are sent back to London in 1870.
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You are hungry, and want some bread.
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Which of the following do you expect to find in your bread?
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(1) Grain
(2) Yeast
(3) Chalk
(4) Alum
(5) Plaster of Paris.
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Do you "agree" with the bakery that you want Alum in your bread? Do
you even know it is there?   In what sense is your consumption of
Plaster of Paris an agreed upon transaction if you have no way of
knowing it is there?
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Full of nourishing wheat with extra chalk, you  rent a room in a
new building with cheerful bright wallpaper.
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How much Arsenic is in the room?
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(1) Trace amounts
(2) One pound
(3) Two pounds
(4) Three pounds
(5) Four pounds
(6) Five pounds.
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At what point did you agree to  rent a room infused with 3.7 pounds
of Arsenic? For that matter, did your landlord agree to poison his
tenants when he bought the wallpaper, or did the manufacturer keep
silent on just how much Arsenic was needed for those vivid colours?
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William Hyde

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Needless to say, it is not very good business strategy to poison
your customers.

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Your conclusion is contradicted by reality.  This strategy worked for
decades, and in other contexts, works now.

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Incorrect. We are more people than ever on this planet right now.
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I think that is all I will say about this thought experiment.
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Aside from the time travel, this all happened.  There was plaster of
Paris in the bread, Arsenic in the wallpaper.
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Nobody asked for this, nobody wanted it, but they got it.  Free market!

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Fewer people have died by criminal companies than by governments. So I
prefer to trust a business accountable to its customers. Yes, people
have died, but that is hardly the fault of the free market. As stated,
governments have killed far more, so by that logic, we should ban
governments as quick as possible.
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If you _really_ would like to seriously explore the why and how,

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Oh, I love that "really".  After "really" ignoring the facts I gave
above, you point me to "excellent books".
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The facts of history directly contradict your claims.  But you prefer
theory.

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Incorrect, see above.

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Ok, you prefer lies.
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The predatory behavior of unregulated companies does not contradict an
increasing population.  If a few hundred children die of alum-related
complications, and a number of people have their lives shortened by
arsenic poisoning, the population can still increase, especially when
these activities are banned by government regulation, public health laws
are established, medicine improves, and so on.
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We have nothing quite so blatant as alum or chalk in bread now, thanks
to government.   Not in the west, anyway.
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 A Scandinavian country classifies Subway bread as confectionery (re tax)

In Halifax there was a subway with insufficient ventilation.  The concentrated smell of that bread put me right off it.
But yes, it is strongly not recommended for me.

We have more recently had lead paint, asbestos and thalidomide.

I would draw a distinction here in  that these are due to ignorance and/or incompetence, at least at first. Much like the above example of arsenic in wallpaper, where ignorance and/or incompetence let people think that the poison would stay there (and toddlers, of course, never lick anything).
Though asbestos (largely mined in Canada) continues to be sold long after its effects have been known, a national disgrace which at some point could not be explained by ignorance or incompetence, but only by greed.
I have never been able to read JW Campbell's essay on thalidomide, but the general impression is that he thought offering it was perfectly OK, if unfortunate.  I file this under incompetence/ignorance (from someone with a degree) rather than greed.
But they always knew that Alum and plaster of Paris in bread was a health risk.  No level of ignorance can excuse that.

We still have opioids,

I still think they have value. Minor rant follows:
I had shingles.  Oxycocet, a time-release opioid (allegedly harder to tamper with, but not really), killed the pain utterly, so I could sleep at night.
If I get shingles again and something of the kind is not available, I will be one unhappy patient.  Nothing else worked at night (it was just over the freezing point outside, so during the day I could take a walk without a jacket and  the cold + tylenol 2 did the trick but I couldn't sleep doing that).
An impecunious friend in the US takes Tylenol 3 for back pain.  A bottle of sixty pills lasts most of a year.  As a result of an HMO shakeup he has a new doctor who is scared to death of prescribing any opioid in any quantity.  Five or six non-opioid treatments (with expensive copays) have been tied so far.  The result?  Chronic pain.
First they wildly over-prescribed them, now, like infants who have been punished, they're very, very good boys and girls.  Too good, in fact.
Even my own doctor, a sensible man, prescribed fifty pills, I talked him down to thirty and took fifteen.  If I focused my attention about half an hour after taking one I could feel a slight buzz.  But the real high, as in Orwell, was the relief from pain.
And opium based cough suppressant is the only thing that works for me. Regrettably I have none to hand, so next time I get a serious infection I will have to badger some doctor into prescribing it - and it is hard to badger with messages scrawled on bits of paper.
  ultra processed foods, carcenogenic meat products

and chemicals in drinking water due to mining (and fracking).
Our new right wing coalition government in Aotearoa has recently
reversed our tobacco laws limiting nicotine levels and limiting age
restrictions under pressure and financing from multinational tobacco
interests.

Yes, we have a long way to go and recently seem to be regressing.  I just love the thought of all that plastic in my tissue.  Gonna live forever!
William Hyde