Re: Pearls Before Swine: Rat The Luddite

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 8/14/2024 9:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

On 8/14/2024 9:44 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 8/14/2024 12:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:15:25 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
 

On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 18:35:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
 

The only solution is to completely eliminate single-use
plastics.    I'd even go so far as to include milk and
juice jugs in that ban (glass is far more recyclable
and aside shipping weight, similar in cost).
 Paper milk cartons can eliminate the plastic lid.

 What does "single use" mean? I understand in the context of fast food
cups but how about less common items like those 4 liter milk jugs I

 As noted below, I explicitly included 4liter/1gallon milk jugs.
 

get my milk in (and generally put out each week in the recycling bin)
or similar such items - for instance my cheddar comes wrapped in
plastic and once the cheese is eaten, that plastic wrapper isn't
getting used again <grin>

 Congratulations. Your jugs join the 9% of plastic that gets recycled
in America.
 91% goes to the landfill or incinerator.
 [...]

 There is a /reason/ we replaced glass with plastic, at least in some
cases.

 The primary reason is shipping weight.

 I'd challenge that: The primary reason is money.
 Yes, lower shipping weight saves money, but I expect
much larger is the savings from not having to maintain
a recycling chain to recover, wash, and reuse bottles
strong enough to sustain multiple uses (you may remember
what old school Coke bottles were like).
 I've seen one gallon glass milk jugs, but they're heavy
enough to need included handles. More often I've seen
milk delivery using pint bottles - multiple if the family
requests it.
 

Interestingly, while, until they were banned, one-time-use plastic
shopping bags were taxed (as were and still are papter one-time-use
paper bags), smaller bags used to contain fruits and veggies were
exempt, despite clearly being one-time-use.

 The Trader Joes produce bags are biodegradable.

 Single use plastic shopping bags are an interesting case of
tradeoffs. Banning them absolutely cuts down on unsightly
trash blowing around, but I've read that the 'resusable' bags
sold to replace them are so much heavier that they need to
be used hundreds of times before they pay off the extra
plastic used.
 

I use cloth bags....

>
What cloth? Is it a natural fiber? Or is it polyester/dacron, etc?
>
If its a plastic fiber, you've done little or nothing to reduce
plastic waste. How many single-use bags are required to equal the
weight of your reusable?
>
pt
>

I heard somewhere, sometime, that in order to benefit "nature" by using a cloth bag, you have to use it at least 10000 times. I wonder if it is true? I have no proof, just something I read or heard many years ago.