Re: (ReacTor) Five Works of SF That Undermine Their Own Thesis

On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 08:34:02 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 3/17/2025 8:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On 16 Mar 2025 17:42:03 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:
 

In article <hiqdtj5rsuitbs2se6hu1kt0ev28qi7aav@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person  <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On 15 Mar 2025 16:07:37 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:
>

In article <20250315a@crcomp.net>, Don  <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

James Nicoll wrote:

Five Works of SF That Undermine Their Own Thesis
>
Stories that lead to different conclusions than the author intended...
>
https://reactormag.com/five-works-of-sf-that-undermine-their-own-thesis/

>
Wow, three for five today !  "Starship Troopers", the totally awesome
"Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles", and "Star Trek: The Original
Series".

>
Lynn, stories set in Wyoming (in one way or another) automatically
attain a more favorable review by me in a manner similar to Texas
settings for you. Colorado also works for me in a pinch. So THE
PROBABILITY BROACH (set in Denver) is worthy regardless of its
shortcomings.
    They shot spidery STARSHIP scenes at a location called Hell's Half
Acre - about fifty miles down the highway from my hometown. Here's a
rundown fit for Ted's blog (if only Hell's Half Acre was in Columbia):
<https://county10.com/jeep-rides-starships-and-coffee-hells-half-acre-store/>
    The notion of an infantry soldier in a Powered Suit, shot from a
space vehicle, down to a battlefield, is the most essential part of the
story, in my opinion. But in a fan magazine from back in the day
Verhoeven admits his shoestring budget prohibited Power Suits, so he
focused on bugs instead.
    Afterward the cheap production values were hand-waved away with a
satire cover story. And a touch of T&A thrown in to titillate and
distract from STARSHIP's silver screen scat show. (Another case where
movie porn trumps a woman's right not be seen soley as a sex object.)
>

>
I actually liked the shower scene.  Yes, it was good eye-candy, but
it also made the point these weren't contemporary Americans.

>
I don't recall if that's in /Starship Troopers/, but it (and more) is
in /The Forever War/.

>
There is no sex or casual nudity in the book.  As I recall the military
does include women in combat roles, usually as spaceship pilots, but not
in MI.  Rico admits to liking girls, but nothing any further than that
develops.

 
Thinking about it overnight ... I concur.
 
So, someone making the movie (and able to influence the script) may
have read Haldeman.
 
The spaceship pilots (and other crew) would have been Navy, not
Marines.
 
Indeed, military spaceships in SF are often modeled on naval vessels
and their terminology and their traditions.

>
Something to remember about the SST movie is that it didn't start out as
an adaptation of the book.  The producers were already well into
pre-production for a low-budget SF movie when they found out that the
movie rights to the book were available.  So they bought them for the
name recognition and did some last minute changes before filming to
kinda-sorta make the movie fit the title.

I would say that that is something to pay no attention to whatsoever.

The original /The Little Shop of Horrors/ was as low-budget as could
be imagined, but it became a major hit because /it is a good movie/.

And how many well-funded, well-planned, well-produced, well-directed
"blockbusters" have ... fizzled out because /they were not good
movies/. Sometimes taking a studio or a career or two with them.

Anyway, that's the "excuse" for /I, Robot/. And /Blade Runner/ --
neither of which needs to be excused.

Verhoeven's /SST/, OTOH, cannot be excused. Bad is bad, it's that
simple. It would have been a stinker no matter what it was called.

Interestingly, one of the documetaries on the DVD of his next film,
/Hollow Man/, says that the name was decided by a vote of the cast.
Perhaps he was wishing something similar had been done with /SST/,
thus allowing the film to stand on its own two feet instead of trying
to fill the shoes of a giant.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"