Re: 25 Classic Books That Have Been Banned

On 5/28/25 08:15, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 27 May 2025 09:48:38 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
 

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On 5/27/25 09:13, Paul S Person wrote:

On Mon, 26 May 2025 10:54:47 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
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On 5/26/25 08:37, Paul S Person wrote:
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2. Science is very good (as far as we can tell) at describing a world
(universe)/corrupted by sin/. It can say nothing about one that is
not. It is, IOW, limited in a way it cannot even detect because
nothing it studies is not corrupted. The situation in which the New
Jerusalem descends is generally considered to taking place in a new
world (universe), freed from sin.

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How do you know that what you are describing as a Universe
corrupted by Sin is real? You are living within the Xtian mythos.
Myth-OS is not a good place to start from whether Xtian, Jewish,
   Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Norse. or other pagan mythos.

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How do you know that a Universe /not/ corrupted by Sin is real?

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Because of the prevalence of death and change.
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The standard interpretation is that prior ot the "original sin" of our
mythic parents they were immortal but with sin came death. However
death is universal for complex organisms as shown by countless fossils.
Therefore the myth and its standard interpretation are flawed at best
and likely wrong. Many deaths before homo sapiens evolved. And much
more time passed than allowed for in the standard interpretation of
the various scriptures apart from the Hindu which are very religiously
focused on battles of gods, their avatars and demi-gods in flying chariots.
over very long periods of time.
Further homo sapiens sapiens evolved as shown by many fossils
and likely had its problems with large scale deaths which reduced our
genetic diversity. This may have been caused by plagues or perhaps
by catastrophic ocean rise when the various ice dams collapsed as
the previous Ice Age waned.

 And how do you know that the "mythic parents" and their condition was
not quite quite real -- until they fell, and everything changed?

That is not the story told. They lived in ignorance in a garden and tasted the
apple of the knowledge of good and evil.  The apple tasted good so they became
aware of the taste of good things and the un-named individual ate a poisonous
something and died.  Dying is evil and the body rots and stinks.

 IOW, what makes you think that you are not describing a corrupted
Universe? Are you assuming that there must be continuity between the
original form and the corrupted form? On what basis?

Geology and fossils. Radioactivity used to date the various matter
The latest astronomical data from the extra-terrestial observational devices usually
referred to as Telescopes which are able to look back in time before humanity could have existed.

 

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The question cuts both ways. And "Myth-OS"es are everywhere.
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And you somehow left out: atheist, anti-religious bigotry, secular
humanism, and any other religion that denies its own nature.

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i do not believe Atheism is a religion. Anti-religious bigotry is
over-blown.
Secular humanism is a philosophy not a religion.  Some people are attempting
to create an atheistic church which will depend on the community of people
who are willing to identify as atheists which is problematic in many areas.
In case you had not heard atheists are persecuted far more than
Christians or most other religions.

 Well, of course you don't. It is one of your deeply-held religious
beliefs. But reality is.

Reality is indeed.

 Persecuted for their religious beliefs. Lack of Freedom of Speech is a
bitch.
 And you can't have Freedom of Speech without Freedom of Religious
Speech, as some Iranians a decade or so found out when they voiced
disapproval of the government's policies. Those policies were the
Ayatollah's policies, and the Ayatollah's policies were Allah's
policies, so they were punished for blasphemy. Which, in Iran, is
quite severely punished.
 

Note that many of these admit to being philosophies or even
ideologies. But when those function as a "Myth-OS", they act as a
religion.
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This is why attempts to change other people's minds by "citing facts"
does not generally work: what is going on is all too often actually an
attempt to convert them from one religion to another.
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And, BTW, my statement clearly supports the validity of Science. But
only for the Universe we are in.

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Well of course we have to specify the validity of science in this
Universe as presently we have no access except through the medium
of imagination. And that is the probably for the best in this world.

 And yet above you presume to regard the description of the World
(Universe) as God created it as "myth". Without any reason at all
except that you can't fit it into your deeply-held religious beliefs.

The authors of the scriptures referred to the heavens and the earth.
The heavens are not a place but a vast Universe full of billions of stars and
galactic conglomerations But they did not know that at all so they told stories
about everything they could not begin to understand.  We still used some
of the names they coined to tell the stories for example we call the Galaxy
we live in the Milky Way and Galaxy is the same word for the stars they
could see at night stretching across the sky. If g-d had inspired them they
would have had more truth in the scriptures.
They were talking about a ceramist god who breathed the breath of life into the
creation. The authors were enormously ignorant of nearly everything that did not
contribute to the survival of human persons and the gross facts of reproduction.
Well they had learned that women did not reproduce without intercourse with
men or gods(?).
They knew nothing of DNA nor of proper nutrition, vitamins, or the true causes
of illness of all sorts. The prophets, some of them at least, likely suffered from
very poor diets which can lead to hallucinatory experiences and paranoia.
Oh and by the way it has been speculated that DNA which is the basis of
life on this planet and likely else where as well first came together in deposits
of clay.  But it may have been an import from the previous generation
of stars and planets which died to make the Solar System including the Earth.

 (The point here is not whether or not it is "myth". The point here is
that saying it is so reflects your beliefs, not facts, and certainly
not science.)

bliss