Re: Do you condemn Hamas?

In article <lo2cnUq_J_Mchf77nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
%  <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote:

Idlehands wrote:

On 2024-06-06 8:21 p.m., Sharx335 wrote:

On 2024-06-06 6:18 p.m., *skriptis wrote:

Sharx335 <sharx35@telus.net> Wrote in message:r

On 2024-06-06 3:27 p.m., NefeshBarYochai wrote:> This question
became seemingly ubiquitous following October 7. As> Palestinians
defied the imagination, breaking out of Gaza after over a> decade
and a half of living under total air, land, and sea blockade,> many
found themselves having to face this question.> > Whether it be from
Zionists using the violence we witnessed on that> day as a means of
creating story after story of atrocity propaganda —> to force
well-meaning allies into a corner or even those who genuinely>
considered themselves pro-Palestine who struggled with the reality
of> decolonial violence — the question of whether or not Palestinian
armed> resistance factions deserved support or criticism became a
major point> of contention. It was easy for many to support the
cause of> Palestinian liberation when they viewed Palestinians as
perfect> victims, but when Palestinians fought back, suddenly the
question of> solidarity became muddled.> > Months later, after tens
of thousands of Palestinians have been> murdered by Israeli
Occupation Forces in Gaza amid an ongoing> genocide, and after
thousands in the West Bank have found themselves> imprisoned or
under regular attack, sympathy for those resisting their> own
annihilation has grown, with the conversation becoming more clear>
than it was in the days proceeding October 7. As videos spread by>
resistance factions across Gaza and Lebanon find a regular and>
enthusiastic audience and chants in support of those putting their>
lives on the line take root in protests nationwide, it is clear
many> have grown to accept the necessity of armed struggle in the>
Palestinian context, though a true consensus has yet to be
achieved.> > To that end, the answer to the question “Do you condemn
Hamas?,”> particularly for those of us on the Left as we analyze the
history of> Palestine and why resistance occurs in a colonial
context, should have> always been clear.> > A violent phenomenon> >
As Frantz Fanon’s oft-cited statement from Wretched of the Earth
has> made clear, national liberation, national reawakening,
restoration of> the nation to the Commonwealth, whatever the name
used, whatever the> latest expression — decolonization is always a
violent event.> Palestine is not an exception to this reality.> >
The colonization of Palestine by Zionists, like all colonialism>
throughout history, brought with it widespread and constant
violence> levied in all forms against the Palestinian people. This
was by> design, as the very nature of settler colonialism is a
necessarily> brutal one given the end goal of the wholesale
elimination of the> Indigenous population in all forms but
nostalgia. This violence does> not simply manifest itself through
the military campaigns waged by> Zionist settlers and the Israeli
occupation army, but through every> part of the colonial endeavor
itself — an endeavor that can only be> sustained through the
suffering, exploitation, repression, and death> of Palestinians and
all else that the colony wishes to conquer.> > Palestinians, whether
in Occupied Palestine, in refugee camps in> bordering nations, or in
the diaspora around the world, are forced> every single day to
wrestle with the reality of this settler colonial> violence. The
very existence of the Zionist project poses an> existential threat
to the lives of millions, who have in some cruel> twist of reality
been deemed existential threats by the project for> the simple
reason that their existence undermines its legitimacy.> > This
violence does not occur without resistance. Throughout history,>
whether it be in Algeria, South Africa, Ireland, or Palestine,>
colonized people have risen up in the face of brutal violence to
free> themselves from the shackles of their own oppression. This
resistance> does not generally start as armed struggle, but through
civil> disobedience, protests, general strikes, and similar tactics.
Yet when> these tactics fail, as they often have, or when
exceptional violence> is waged against the people in response, armed
struggle becomes a> necessity.> > The colonial power, its legitimacy
owed solely to the force it> undertakes to maintain its existence,
creates the conditions for the> resistance that will rise against
it. The more violence and repression> colonized people face, the
more they resist. Violent resistance> becomes mainstream out of
sheer necessity given their material> conditions. This creates a
cycle of violence, one perpetuated first> and foremost by the
violence of the colonial entity itself.> > Even before the official
foundation of the Zionist project in 1948,> this cycle was well
established. The Balfour Declaration came into> existence in 1917,
signifying Britain’s official endorsement of> Zionist aspirations.
By 1929, a fifth of Palestinians found themselves> landless. By the
1930s, many Palestinians found themselves unemployed> and
economically destitute, as Zionist capital, backed by favorable>
imperial British laws and treatment, began flowing ever more>
intensively into Palestine, according to Ghassan Kanafani’s seminal>
work on the 1936 Great Palestinian Revolt.> > These factors spurred
resistance of their own variety, including the> Buraq Uprising of
1929, efforts by Palestinians to pool resources to> purchase land,
sporadic violence, as well as Palestinian notables> lobbying for
better treatment from their British overlords. This blend> of
violent and non-violent efforts would all be suppressed or>
ultimately met with limited success.> > In 1936, when British forces
murdered Syrian revolutionary figure> Shaykh ‘Izz al-Din al-Qassam,
Palestinian popular resentment turned> into a general strike, and
ultimately into popular revolt, which was> put down brutally by
Zionist and British forces by 1939. Only a few> years later,
Zionists would ethnically cleanse more than 750,000> Palestinians
from upwards of 530 cities, towns, and villages and kill> thousands
more in what Palestinians refer to as the Nakba, or the>
“catastrophe”. These ethnic cleansing campaigns continue up to the>
modern day.> > Palestinians would rise up as a result of the
subjugation they faced,> again through a combination of violent and
non-violent struggle that> would be met with even more violent
oppression. When Palestinians> waged cross-border raids into
occupied territory, they were met with a> Zionist invasion in
Lebanon and massacres at Sabra and Shatila. When> Palestinians rose
up during the First and Second Intifadas, they were> met with
violent crackdowns, mass arrests, and widespread violence> that
would lead to the intensification of their own violent resistance>
efforts. When Palestinians in Gaza took to marching to the wall
that> surrounded them in the March of Great Return, hundreds were
killed and> thousands more injured by Israeli soldiers. The cycle of
violence> continued and intensified.> > Fast forwarding to today,
Palestinians continue to live in bantustans> in the West Bank, and
what could functionally be described as a> concentration camp in
Gaza, with Palestinians in the 1948 and 1967> territories living
under brutal apartheid management structures. They> have resisted
every step of the way, each time seeing thousands> imprisoned,
murdered, displaced, and millions utterly subjugated and> exploited
as the Zionist project continues toward the ultimate goal of>
eliminating them in all forms but nostalgia.> > When armed struggle
becomes material necessity> > In the face of all of this violence,
armed resistance organizations> have risen up and established
themselves amongst the people, whether> they be Fatah, the PFLP, the
DFLP, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas,> or others. These groups,
and the violence they employ, did not come to> exist in a vacuum.
Rather, they are the result of decades of brutal> colonial violence,
and the culmination of Palestinian efforts to> liberate themselves
from it.> > The tactics they employ on the ground are the
culmination of this same> struggle. These groups chose to undergo
operations they determined may> advance their liberatory struggle.
Many outside of Palestine, and even> Palestinians themselves, may
have disagreements with these tactics, or> on a grander scale,
disagreements with the core principles and> ideologies of one or
several of the groups deploying them. For those> of us in the
Western Left, however, removed from the reality of> on-the-ground
struggle, this cannot mean that we undermine the very> legitimacy of
armed struggle itself.> > Hamas is a key example of this. Like them
or not, the efforts they> have waged and continue to wage have made
more of a material impact> toward the liberation of Palestine than
anything any of us in the West> will ever make. They are taking on
the brutal violence of colonial> power and waging a campaign of
armed struggle that has, at the current> moment, with coordination
with other resistance factions, made the> Zionist colony more of a
pariah than it has ever been on a global> stage and shattered the
image of military invincibility and overall> stability it has spent
decades cultivating. Countless years of> struggle have culminated in
this flashpoint.> > The path forward, as history has repeatedly
shown, will be largely> forged through the armed struggle of
resistance factions on the> ground. Their very survival depends on
it, and it continues to> challenge and erode the power of the
Zionist entity itself.> > Palestinian armed resistance has forced
the Zionist project to wage an> increasingly violent campaign that
is sharpening contradictions in> such a way as to lead to its
continued unraveling. As the masses in> the imperial core,
specifically those of the United States, come to> realize that their
interests are at odds with the interests of the> Zionist project and
their government leaders who are sustaining the> project’s ongoing
genocide, the traditional support base the project> relies on has
eroded. In its place is an ever-increasing mass standing> in firm
support of Palestinians, rather than their colonizers.> > In
Palestine, the Palestinian struggle for liberation has developed>
what can be called a “Popular Cradle” of resistance — a state of
unity> and cohesion that has developed between the Palestinian
armed> resistance and broader Palestinian society. That “popular
cradle,” as> the Palestinian Youth Movement has so aptly described
it, has worked> as an organ of the liberation struggle by
conceptualizing resistance> as both a normal and necessary state of
being. This has led to a> reality where the resistance is sustained
by the masses themselves,> who support them and readily accept the
consequences of their> continued fight for liberation.> > That armed
struggle, a material necessity, is reaping material> results, even
in spite of mass violence, crackdowns, and a campaign of> outright
genocide. In Gaza specifically, that very struggle in no> small part
led to the withdrawal of Zionist settlers from the> territory which
forced Zionist planners to rework how they went about> their
occupation of Gaza. The struggle has kept Israeli Occupation> Forces
from entering Jenin and other refugee camps across historic>
Palestine without serious consequence. In many ways, the resistance>
struggle has been a key element of continued Palestinian survival.>

Moving past the question> > The question of whether we condemn

Hamas is more than just a question> of condemnation. At its core, we
are being asked to disavow decolonial> violence altogether — to
support Palestinians only when they are> perfect victims or only
when the groups waging liberatory struggle> align with the values of
our ideologies and fraternal parties. It is a> question that acts as
a trap and misses the point entirely.> > We cannot make the mistake
of engaging seriously with such an> obfuscation. It is on us,
especially those of us on the Left, to> understand that the core
driver of the violence we are seeing is and> always has been Zionist
settler colonialism. This cycle of violence is> perpetuated not by
the colonized, as they seek to liberate themselves> from the state
of total subjugation and brutal reality of genocidal> liquidation,
but by the Zionist project and those advancing its> interests.> >
The question we have to ask ourselves, and indeed answer, is not>
whether we condemn Hamas, but whether we condemn a settler colonial>
regime that makes armed struggle necessary for survival.> >
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/06/do-you-condemn-hamas/> > > But when
"armed struggle" devolves into the widespread raping of women and
hostages, the assault and murder of infants, and on and on and
on...it's impossible to have any sympathy for the usually masked
bunch of non-uniformed thugs doing it. These same thugs have send
thousands and thousands of rockets onto Israeli soil, not to mention
causing dozens of suicide bombers to blow up buses usually full of
non-combatants such as women and children. So, now that Israel had
said, in effect, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I fully support Israel's ongoing
Gaza initiative and condemn fully ANY nation or group NOT supporting
IsraelWHen my ancestors came to Canada in the 1800s, they left the
"Old Country" behind, never to return. I wish some other ethnic
groups would do the same...leave the squabbles BEHIND and stop
waving the old flags over here.

>
>
>
>
Israel (Jews) have STOLEN the land. They colonized Palestine over the
course of past century expelling the natives.
>
Israel is a more modern creation but no different than e.g. USA. It's
a situation in which bunch of people moved into someone else's
homeland and claiming it for their own.
>
>
But that's not all, in fact it's only a portion of the entire
problem. You see, after stealing most of Palestine from the natives
(Christians and Moslems) the world actually acknowledged the Jewish
theft and seizures and legalized it, recognizing their colonial
state, the Israel.
>
But the world also said, the non-colonized part of Palestine should
be free too.
>
World = UN.
>
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But the sneaky Jews have occupied the remaining part of Palestine jn
1967 and have been holding people there under military occupation,
continuing to build Jewish settlements in lands that do not legally
belong to Israel, thus committing ethnic cleansing and crimes and
abusing the Moslems and Christians.
>
>
Why don't they just fuck off back to their stolen piece of Palestine
ie Israel?
>
Why are they occupying someone else's land for more than 57 years?
>
You know what's occupation? Germans were occupied in 1945-1949 they
had no rights in that period. It's a severe punishment.
>
>
Ask them (the Jews) what is it that they even want, what is their end
goal and you'll realize they're not interested in peace but conquest.

>
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Your parents should demand a refund of all the school taxes they have
ever paid for you. Obviously, you failed to learn ANYTHING.
>
>

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Mr Pot, Mr Kettle on line one for you.
>

nice crossposting , wang head

 Sharx and % are intelligent in comparison to lying Idlehands!