Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...

On 1/31/2025 5:45 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Jan 31, 2025 at 2:20:52 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

  On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

  On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

    On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
   

    On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

      On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
     

      On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

        On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
  wrote:
       

        On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

          On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
    wrote:
         

          On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

            On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
      wrote:
           

        "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
        protesters"
>
>
>
>
>
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/

                  It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a resident alien to
      advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.

>
          So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
          deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?

                  Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
  and were
        the participants resident aliens or American citizens?

>
        Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?

                Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply
'pro-Palestine'.
        Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
    "From the
        river to the sea."
       

           Is pro-Nazi not?

                The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist
organization and
    even
        if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
  aliens.

>
      "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's different
      when WE do it".

            Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
  group by
      the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in
the 70s,
      when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
  designated
      terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
     

      Trump is punishing these students for their speech

            No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you
apparently
      can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight years. No,
    that's
      wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
  refused
      to do it.
     

      once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
  principles.

            It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
  jihadists
      that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
  population
    to
      their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st
Amendment
    was
      intended to protect.
     

        I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.

            Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of what the 1st
      Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.

>
    Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
    for voicing support of Palestine

        If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river to the
    sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for Palestine.
    American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
  country
    you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
    organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
        We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing a group
    whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with Israel)
  while
    here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
   

    Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were Democratic,
    you'd be apoplectic.

        I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current
crop of
    Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
        My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance during
  the
    wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community"
that the
    city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes you've
    committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers, thieves, and
    narco-traffickers that she has their back.
        Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried about has no
  desire
    to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any more than
    anyone else does.

>
  I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
  just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
  attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
  with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).

    What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal aliens
at
  all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes against
our
  citizens?

>
So, the ends justify the means?

 Still waiting for you to describe ehat basic principles require us to tolerate
the presence of illegal aliens at all, let alone illegal aliens that commit
depraved violent crimes against our citizens?
 And what "means" are you talking about? Police finding the criminals like they
would any other fugitive, arresting them, and putting them on a plane back to
their country of origin? Those "means"? Yes, they are most certainly
justified.

The "means" are the abrogation of our free-speech principle, and our turning a blind eye to blatant election fraud.  And, yes, I consider those more basic to democracy than, e.g., any sort of border laxity.