Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...

On Jan 31, 2025 at 3:25:01 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

On 1/31/2025 5:45 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

 On Jan 31, 2025 at 2:20:52 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

 On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

   On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
  

   On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

     On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
    

     On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

       On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
 wrote:
      

       On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

         On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
   wrote:
        

         On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

           On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
     wrote:
          

           On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

             On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig"
<nobody@nowhere.com>
       wrote:
            

         "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
         protesters"
 
 
 
 
 
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/

            
       It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a resident alien to
       advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.

 
           So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
           deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?

          
         Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
   and were
         the participants resident aliens or American citizens?

 
         Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?

        
         Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply
 'pro-Palestine'.
         Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
     "From the
         river to the sea."
        

            Is pro-Nazi not?

        
         The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist
 organization and
     even
         if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
   aliens.

 
       "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's
different
       when WE do it".

      
       Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
   group by
       the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in
 the 70s,
       when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
   designated
       terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
      

       Trump is punishing these students for their speech

      
       No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you
 apparently
       can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight years. No,
     that's
       wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
   refused
       to do it.
      

       once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
   principles.

      
       It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
   jihadists
       that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
   population
     to
       their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st
 Amendment
     was
       intended to protect.
      

         I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.

      
       Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of what the 1st
       Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.

 
     Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
     for voicing support of Palestine

    
     If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river
to the
     sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for Palestine.
     American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
   country
     you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
     organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
    
     We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing
a group
     whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with Israel)
   while
     here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
    

     Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were Democratic,
     you'd be apoplectic.

    
     I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current
 crop of
     Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
    
     My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance
during
   the
     wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community"
 that the
     city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes
you've
     committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers,
thieves, and
     narco-traffickers that she has their back.
    
     Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried about has no
   desire
     to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any
more than
     anyone else does.

 
   I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
   just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
   attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
   with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).

  
   What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal
aliens
 at
   all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes against
 our
   citizens?

 
 So, the ends justify the means?

 
 Still waiting for you to describe ehat basic principles require us to
tolerate
 the presence of illegal aliens at all, let alone illegal aliens that commit
 depraved violent crimes against our citizens?
 
 And what "means" are you talking about? Police finding the criminals like
they
 would any other fugitive, arresting them, and putting them on a plane back
to
 their country of origin? Those "means"? Yes, they are most certainly
 justified.

 
The "means" are the abrogation of our free-speech principle

Says the guy who has no problem with censorship if government decides the
speech involved isn't worthy enough.

and our turning a blind eye to blatant election fraud.

What does election fraud have to do with any of this?

I'm asking about the ICE round-ups of violent illegal alien criminals--
something you objected to-- and exactly how that somehow violates "basic
American principles".