Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes

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Sujet : Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes
De : worldoff9908 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (NFN Smith)
Groupes : rec.bicycles.tech
Date : 26. May 2025, 18:15:58
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <10127kh$23tsl$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1
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Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:
 https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share   
Ignoring the political drivel of the story...
The problem is with classifying ebikes as "bikes" (e.g. 2 wheels) rather than accounting the dynamics of a powered vehicle.
When it comes to bicycles, it's too easy to consider a traditional bike to be a "pedestrian", because it's slower than a motor vehicle, and is not powered. However a lot of the time, traditional bikes and pedestrians are incompatible sharing the same space. Although there are bikes (especially the ones that are more or less "toys", whether the ones ridden by children, or casual riding by adults) that can share spaces with pedestrians, most serious bikes (riders that have experience of more than a few miles and accumulated riding skills) are generally not compatible with other foot-based traffic.
I know that there are a few municipalities that explicitly ban bikes on sidewalks (especially central city areas), but I've found that even multi-use paths are frequently not a good place for serious riding, because of the speed differential between a bicycle and a pedestrian. And there's even an in-between space for things like unpowered scooters or roller blades that are faster than pedestrians but slower than bikes.
However, with ebikes (and for that matter, powered scooters) when you add powered propulsion, then you're adding an extra measure of speed, including that too many ebikes are capable of speeds in excess of what is possible than for all but the fastest fitness riders.
I'm fully of the opinion that any bike should be regarded as a vehicle, and generally, ridden on streets, where it's understood by both the rider and motorists that the bike is subject to all the rules of the road, both rights and responsibilities.  Yet at the same time, I recognize there are combinations of road and bike (and rider) that are incompatible with each other.  It's not unlike trying to drive a Ferrari in a school zone, or taking an antique Model-T Ford out onto a freeway.
However, the issue with the ebikes is the question of speed, as well as the understanding of the rules of the road.  With a motorcycle, it's normally necessary to have licensing, both for the bike and the operator. Somehow, it seems to have not occurred that just because the propulsion system of an ebike is electrical rather than an internal combustion engine that the ebike should not be subject to the same rules as the motorcycle, rather than being regarded in the same light as an unpowered bicycle, simply because it has two wheels.
I encountered this particular item a few days ago.  I was driving, and as I was preparing to exit my neighborhood, two pre-teen riders of ebikes turned from a major arterial street into our neighborhood. I don't know if they were in the bike lane (with traffic) or on the sidewalk, but they were going at a pretty good clip, in excess of 20 MPH, and a lot faster than I take that corner on my bike. One rider stayed on the right side of the street (I don't remember if on the street or the bike lane), but the other rider crossed over the median before turning into the neighborhood, and came toward me in the bike lane, and accelerating. In that particular point, the first few feet of the street, because of the hard median, the bike lane disappears, so he wasn't even in the bike lane, just riding against traffic at an unreasonable speed. He quickly crossed over to the other side of the street, but I was so shocked, I didn't even have the presence of mind to honk my horn at him. I really did fear having a head-on collision with him.
For both of these riders, they were wearing full-face helmets (I'm sure that were provided/required by parents), and to me, this is one of the problems with helmet requirements in that it can encourage people to take more risks, figuring that the helmet will protect everything, including against bad judgement. I believe these boys live in our neighborhood, and I don't know if I should try to find the parents and have a discussion with them about riding safety, or not.
To me, ebikes aren't necessarily a problem, just that I think that they need to be classified as motor vehicles, and subject to that set of rules.
This piece isn't a well thought-out essay, so much as me simply thinking out loud.
Smith

Date Sujet#  Auteur
26 May 25 * New York's Crackdown on Ebikes78Frank Krygowski
26 May 25 +- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Jeff Liebermann
26 May 25 +* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes65Catrike Ryder
26 May 25 i+* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes5Roger Merriman
26 May 25 ii+* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes3Catrike Ryder
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26 May 25 i `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes58Frank Krygowski
26 May 25 i  +- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder
26 May 25 i  +- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1AMuzi
30 May 25 i  `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes55Zen Cycle
30 May 25 i   `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes54Catrike Ryder
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30 May 25 i    ii+* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes8Rolf Mantel
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1 Jun 25 i    i         i+* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes18AMuzi
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1 Jun 25 i    i         ii`* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes16Frank Krygowski
1 Jun 25 i    i         ii +* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes14Catrike Ryder
1 Jun 25 i    i         ii i`* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes13Frank Krygowski
1 Jun 25 i    i         ii i `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes12Catrike Ryder
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4 Jun 25 i    i         ii i  i `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes3Zen Cycle
4 Jun 25 i    i         ii i  i  `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes2Catrike Ryder
4 Jun 25 i    i         ii i  i   `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder
2 Jun 25 i    i         ii i  `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes4Frank Krygowski
2 Jun 25 i    i         ii i   `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes3Catrike Ryder
2 Jun 25 i    i         ii i    `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes2Frank Krygowski
2 Jun 25 i    i         ii i     `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder
1 Jun 25 i    i         ii `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1AMuzi
1 Jun 25 i    i         i`- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder
2 Jun 25 i    i         `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes2zen cycle
2 Jun 25 i    i          `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder
30 May 25 i    `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes4AMuzi
30 May 25 i     `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes3Frank Krygowski
30 May 25 i      `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes2Catrike Ryder
9 Jun05:18 i       `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Frank Krygowski
26 May 25 `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes11NFN Smith
27 May 25  `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes10Frank Krygowski
27 May 25   +* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes8Roger Merriman
31 May 25   i`* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes7NFN Smith
31 May 25   i `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes6Roger Merriman
31 May 25   i  `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes5NFN Smith
1 Jun 25   i   `* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes4Roger Merriman
1 Jun 25   i    +* Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes2NFN Smith
2 Jun 25   i    i`- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Roger Merriman
2 Jun 25   i    `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Rolf Mantel
30 May 25   `- Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes1Catrike Ryder

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