Re: Grease and waxes

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 11:49:24 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>

On 7/2/2024 11:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 02 Jul 2024 10:29:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
 

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>

On 7/2/2024 12:22 AM, James wrote:

On 2/7/24 11:57, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/1/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

As usual the obvious candidates without a shred of knowledge of
chemistry told you all that I didn't know what I was talking about
when I said that Silca was making a block that looked like
Chocolate that converted grease to wax.
>
I have continued to be curious why people that know nothing would
say things about which they know nothing. Grease and wax asr ONE
chemical chain from being the same thing. Where the hell do you
get Candle Wax from - TALLOW - which is animal fat. The
lubricating grease on a new chain (SRAM no longer put this grease
on a chain) is petroleum based but the chemistry is the same.
>
And what would bring the usual noisome candidates to call Silca
liars because I reported their product?

>
It's difficult to tell who or what you're talking about, given your
usual total lack of citations, quotations, etc. I suspect it's more
of your fantasies or hallucinations.
>
But to discuss a matter of fact: "Where the hell do you get Candle
Wax from - TALLOW - which is animal fat" has been wrong for normal
commercial candles for well over 100 years. See
https://www.gregorylefever.com/pdfs/candle.pdf
or https://candles.org
>
Some people still make or value tallow candles. Those are mostly
the sorts of people who weave their own wool to make their own
clothes, raise their own chickens, and tell time using only
sundials. Heck, they probably use downtube friction shifters!
>

>
A mechanical engineer I worked for who's specialty is monitoring
machine vibrations for the purpose of predictive or proactive
maintenance, explained to me that lubricating grease is made from a
mix of a "soap" and oil, and is not a blend of wax and oil.  Seems
about right...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grease_(lubricant)
>

>
Yes that's right, usually using lithium or calcium based binders.

>
Put another way, the lithium or calcium is an element of the soap (salt
of a fatty acid).  Typical household soaps have sodium or potassium in
the same role.

 
The "soap" is usually some form of stearate or stearic acid, which
hardens the oil into something solid:
<https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/blog/products/all-about-stearic-acid.html>
 
Notice that the above article mentions:
"Their surfactant action helps reduce the surface tension of oils,
which makes it easier for oil and water molecules to mix well."
In other words, if you want water mixed into your chain lube (by
splashing or condensation), stearic acid will do it nicely.
 
The soap is usually sodium or potassium stearate.  Calcium stearate is
also used but for a somewhat evil purpose.  It limits foaming
(bubbles) to a fairly narrow pH value.  This is fine for laundry
soaps, where too much foam can make a giant mess.  It's not so fine in
hair shampoo, where it's purpose is to require the user to shampoo
TWICE to obtain a foaming lather.  (Yes, this is a conspiracy theory).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_stearate>
"Unlike soaps containing sodium and potassium, calcium stearate is
insoluble in water and does not lather well."
 
I'm not aware that any of this offers any improvements in chain
lubrication.

>

Formerly lithium, now calcium:
https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/130-Series/NO-130-AA

>
Nope.  The SDS data shows that the calcium bearing ingredient is:
Precipitated calcium carbonate    1 to <5%
<https://lubriplate-sds.thewercs.com/DirectDocumentDownloader/Document?prd=04854~~PDF~~MTR~~AGHS~~EN>
(See Section 3 Composition/information on ingredients).
>
Calcium carbonate is an anti-acid and a good source of dietary
calcium.  Mixed with grease, the result is probably not food safe.
It's main purpose is to neutralize any acids that might be found in
the stomach or in an automobile engine.
>
The calcium in grease is considered a thickener.  See the
specifications tab on the Lubriplate 130-AA data sheet.  On the 4th
line, it says:
"Thickener: Calcium"
>
"Petroleum Quality Institute of America - Calcium"
<http://www.pqiamerica.com/calcium.htm>
>
"Calcium grease and its uses"
<https://danalubes.com/calcium-grease-and-its-uses/>
"Calcium grease, also known as calcium soap or calcium stearate..."
>

I am not an expert but perhaps laundry and shampoo
applications are different from machinery lubrication
requirements.

>
I'm also not an expert, but I suspect that the world isn't ready for
edible automobile grease or using shampoo as an engine lubricant.

Shampoo, hand soap, and other cleaning products work better when water
soluble.  Grease does not.  Sodium stearate is quite soluble in water,
calcium stearate is not.

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