Re: New Bike Path

On Thu, 18 Jul 2024 11:33:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 7/18/2024 8:43 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/18/2024 7:50 AM, John B. wrote:

>
I keep reading all this foolishness about bike paths and
all the
problems. Why not just do as we do here in Thailand?  see
https://touringthailandblog.wordpress.com/road-info/
Notice in many photos there is a center line and two white
lines near
the edge of the road. The area behind the white line is
for bicycles,
small motorcycles and other slow vehicles.

 
In my state and most U.S. states that area is defined as the
road shoulder. According to an acquaintance of mine who is
one of the most prominent bicycle-issue attorneys in the
U.S., the shoulder is not legally part of the roadway. That
is, it's not legally where vehicles are expected to travel,
and while it's not illegal for bicyclists to use it, there's
a real risk that a cyclist doing so would suffer serious
legal harm in any case brought before a court. Examples
might be a motorist hitting the cyclist by a sudden right
hook, or suddenly pulling out of a driveway or side street.
That disadvantage would depend on specific and detailed
wording of laws, which vary state by state.
 
But from a practical viewpoint: Sometimes riding a shoulder
makes sense. It can be handy if the shoulder is sufficiently
wide, free of debris and the cyclist wants to make it easier
for motorists to pass. But there are potential problems
like: What do you do if traffic is passing, you're on the
shoulder and its width suddenly reduces to near zero? What
if when on the shoulder you come to a spot where it's filled
with broken glass? Subservient cyclists will of course stop
in those situations and perhaps bow down as their superiors
in cars pass them; but some of us choose to use our legal
rights to the actual road.
 
More serious problems come from the reduced conspicuity of a
cyclist on a shoulder, or in a similar bike lane. In another
forum two days ago, a cyclist posted his bad experience with
that situation, although I forget now if it was an official
bike lane or a shoulder. Something like "How could he not
see me coming? How could he turn left directly into me??"
Responses were almost unanimous: "If you'd been out in the
traffic lane he would have seen you coming." Cyclists at the
edge are much harder to spot among the background visual
clutter. They're also harder to spot for motorists pulling
out of side streets or driveways.
 
The laws of my state (and most states, I believe) allow me
to use the normal travel lane when necessary for my safety.
That's where I ride.
 

>
While I generally agree with what you wrote, please note
that, as with many complex systems with chaotic random
input, there are times when riding right of the white stripe
makes good sense and times when it does not, and those lines
are neither hard and fast nor categorical.  It's a personal
evaluation in the moment.  Similar analysis applies to
another concurrent thread.

Well, obviously Frankie doesn't  understand what I said. To repeat:
"Why not just do as we do here in Thailand?
Notice in many photos there is a center line and two white
lines near the edge of the road. The area behind the white line is
bicycles, small motorcycles and other slow vehicles"
Note especially the words "do as we do here in Thailand". I said
nothing about Ohio, the Netherlands or Timbuktu.
And, I might note that it works perfectly well here

As for riding in the center of the road, well, see:

https://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews/traffic-congestion-builds-up-as-travelers-return-to-bangkok-after-songkran-holidays-458436
and note the paragraph at the bottom of the article, "On the
expressway route into Bangkok, from kilometer 99 in Mueang district,
Saraburi province, vehicles are continuously moving at a speed of 60
kilometers per hour"

And yet our resident wants to ride in the center of the road?
and yet our

I recently read a comment about the chap that attempted to shoot
Trump, "He would just talk, talk and act like he knew everything,  and
he would say it in a tone that was like, Im better than you...".
--
Cheers,

John B.