Re: 1972 Legnano in the news

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 11/14/2024 6:35 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 
Those things are all hazards that almost never occur on a normal road.
Car tires tend to remove debris, and road maintenance people don't allow
things like sharp ridges to remain in the pavement. Motorists would not
put up with those.
 

They very much do, aka potholes are very much a motor traffic thing, ie
caused by the weight of traffic, weather doesn’t by its self seem to do
this even over decades.

 
Re-read, Roger. Yes, potholes are more common on roads than on bike
trails. But the crashes I described were not caused by potholes, in part
because potholes are a well known hazard that road cyclists watch for.
 

They still kill and injure cyclists, potholes that is, and tend to be more
significant hazards in general with sharper edges deeper, and obscured by
traffic, mind you in a self selecting way I’m more concerned about potholes
with the car than my bikes.

Separate bike paths are touted as so, so safe that riders tend to zone
out. That's a bad situation if (and when) the rider is surprised by
large debris, sharp ridges caused by tree roots, thick coatings of mud
and other hazards that are vanishingly rare where cars' tires roll.

Only one park path certainly locally has leaf litter, I have seen a E
scooter come a off once, as he was impatient with the dog walkers, and
pulled off the path, and the small wheels stopped dead!

They do clear the leaf litter but it’s much less frequent than on the
roads/pavements/cycle infrastructure, we’re well within leaf litter
clearance

 
Also, potholes generate motorist complaints, and so get filled by repair
crews. Surface problems on bike trails can go for years without repair,
despite complaints. I have examples.
 

And roads very much do need cleaning or just get tire tracks in the lane
with debris to the sides and down the center of the lane, and debris is
again motor vehicle derived.

 
Autumn leaves and stout fallen branches are definitely _not_ motor
vehicle derived. Instead, they are kicked or blown aside by passing
cars. They may possibly, occasionally, lie in the dead center of the
lane for a short while if the road has near zero car traffic, but that's
no a problem for a cyclist smart enough to ride in the tire track zone.

The segregated stuff in london, doesn’t seem to get sprayed leaf litter,
generally caught by whatever is the segregated, I can only think of one
cycle lane that gets fair bit of leaf litter, which seems to be from the
overhead trees than kicked by cars, seems to have enough cycle traffic to
keep it as just muck than leaves.

Though as ever this being london and uk, there are street clearing, with
some roads being daily, others less often.

 
If you don't believe surface debris and surface maintenance problems
contribute to the higher per-km crash rates found for bike paths, please
do give your alternate explanation.
 
 

Since your data seems to be cherry picked from the 90’s I suspect as ever
your information is far from accurate.

London has grown hugely with cycle infrastructure, not seen any data to
back this up, bar folks like Vincent Stops who if one was being kind would
say he misrepresents data, or just lies!

Roger Merriman