Re: Some bicycle paths...

On 7/27/2024 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/27/2024 8:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/26/2024 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 20:32:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>

On 7/26/2024 7:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/26/2024 8:03 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 04:07:04 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>

On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 23:21:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>

I'm saying AR-style guns have no practical value in
civilian hands, but
they impose serious societal harm. You agree they have
no practical
value, and you demonstrate that by not owning one.
>
Why do your actions contradict your arguments?

>
<eyeroll>
>
Does the fact that Krygowski doesn't own a pickup truck
mean that they
have no practical value?
>
Does the fact that most cyclists do not own a bike
generator mean that
they have no practical value?
>
Simple logic seems to be beyond Krygowski's intellect.

>
Poor old Frankie. He thrashes around and comes up with
what he thinks
is a logical argument but even a tiny bit of research
would show him
that:
"The AR-15s are one of the most popular hunting rifles in
America
nowadays, and there are several effective, accessible
calibers with
bustling aftermarket's. These cartridges include 6.5
Grendel, . 300
Blackout, . 450 Bushmaster, and ."
>
https://blog.primaryarms.com/guide/ar-15-calibers-for-hunting-deer/
https://www.hunter-ed.com/blog/3-ar-15s-3-types-game/
https://time.com/4390506/gun-control-ar-15-semiautomatic-rifles/
https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/should-your-next-deer-rifle-be-an-ar-15
I could have gone on, there are at least 10 more pages,
but why
bother as the first page is sufficient to show Frankie for
the fool
that he is.

>
Did you really read those? The theme is "Ooh, ARs are
popular. And you _can_ use them for some hunting. Like wild
boars, or Hawaiian goats." But about half the copy was about
the downsides and how to mitigate them.
>
"with hunting smaller animals with an AR-15 is that you must
have a superior aim, and if you plan on eating your small
game, the AR is not ideal for the takedown.... ARs for these
animals are typically heavier than those built for small
game, so you may need to experiment with different stocks
for comfort... The standard .223/5.56 rounds are not ideal
for large animals... some states don't allow deer hunting
with .223 diameter bullets or an AR-15 rifle...the semi-auto
action is more likely to malfunction than simpler action
designs...A jammed AR-15 may require more steps to get it
back in the game...the possibility that the detachable
magazine could fall out during a hunt..."
>
Overall, it's about the changes needed to make a silk purse
out of a sow's ear. And still, I saw no mention of the great
advantage of being able to empty a 30 round magazine in less
than a minute while hunting.
>
I guess that's because it's real value is hunting kids in a
schoolroom, right?

>
Right! But I read that "U.S. civilians own an estimated 20 million
AR-15s"
https://www.kcur.org/podcast/up-to-date/2023-09-29/u-s-civilians-own-an-estimated-20-million-ar-15s-how-the-rifle-became-a-political-symbol
and I also read that:
  Guns used in mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2023
Published by Statista Research Department, Jul 5, 2024
Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the
United States, with a total of 166 different handguns being used in
116 incidents between 1982 and December 2023. These figures are
calculated from a total of 149 reported cases over this period,
meaning handguns are involved in about 78 percent of mass shootings.
>
So the reality is that 20 million AR owners are responsible for 22
mass shootings while pistol owners are responsible for 78% and thus
outlawing AR type rifles will eliminate mass shootings?
>
Right?
>

Right. As with bicycles, different designs have greater or
lesser success in various applications.
>
The AR platform in .223 has some advantages at medium/close
range where weight matters. Longer distance low MOA is
better achieved with larger calibers and varmint shooters
like very small high speed rounds such as the .17.
>
Same with a stable mudguard/carrier equipped commuters with
heavy durable wide tires. You didn't see even one in the T de F.
>
That said there are magnitudes more .223 ARs than .50
Barretts and equally proportioned numbers of commuter bikes
vs real race bikes.

>
>
Besides which one may well ask what constitutes a 'mass shooting' and who's counting?  Chicago has had these incidents so far this year:
>
11 shot = 1, 1 dead
8 shot =1
7 shot =3, 1 dead
6 shot =1
5 shot =4, 4 dead
4 shot =9, 9 dead
Hat trick =35, 21 dead
2 shot =164, 64 dead
>
for 218 incidents with 100 dead.  And it's only July.
That draconian firearm regulation thing is working out as predicted.
>
Today's source:
http://heyjackass.com/
bottom of 3d column.

 So your solution is what? More guns?
 I doubt you can find a city with similar death counts in any nation with rational gun laws.
 It takes amazing skill with cognitive dissonance to pretend there's no connection between American gun culture and American shooting deaths.
 

USA is and has been a particularly criminal, violent country and not only as regards firearms (interested readers are welcome to offer explanations, elucidations, excuses or propaganda as I'm sure will follow).
As has been long noted[1], our decentralized structure allows for innovation, successful and otherwise, often without further damage to the nation. Our system is different in that regard from, say, France.
In that light, Illinois and especially Chicago have raised legal barriers to lawful firearms ownership to a degree significantly greater than most areas with counterproductive result.
You might argue that harassment is just not enough and so advocate actual confiscation. At which point even more defenseless citizens will fall to criminal action.
And after which the tantalizing possibilities of an unarmed population may tempt tyranny.  That's the logic of the Framers who were well informed and richly experienced.
[1]https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1338035
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971