Re: Commuter innovation

On 4/3/2024 4:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 4/2/2024 3:04 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 4/2/2024 9:50 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
I'm not sure if you're including typical "protected bike lanes" in your
"full on separated" category or not. But the "protected" bike lane I've
linked to before (near our city's downtown) is shunned by almost all
cyclists in part because of its debris. The low concrete separators are
apparently not able to stop gravel, etc. from being flung in from the
road. And those separators do have gaps for driveway access.

>
At least the one you linked seems very poorly implemented and next to
industrial/commercial buildings and as such likely to collect debris
quickly, ie it’s something of self fulfilling proficiency.

>
You seem to be employing the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy.
>
I'm giving shortcomings of bike facilities as they actually exist here.
Wolfgang has done the same for those actually existing in Germany. I'm
not impressed by claims saying "Well, _those_ are badly done," and
implications that few have the documented problems.
>

That one cycle lane you’ve highlighted is subpar we’ve agreed on that, your
cherry picking your data to try to defend your ideology/political views.

>
I'm not cherry picking. Regarding bad design or bad maintenance, I'm
describing what I've seen and what data has revealed in countless
cities. The fundamental fact is, so few people are interested in
ditching their cars that it's foolish for municipal governments to spend
real money on either design or maintenance. Funds are limited and
budgets are real, so corners are cut.
>
And about design: Many starry-eyed facility advocates say "It's so
easy!" But totally separate bike paths are impossible in almost all
locations, because commercial land (i.e. where people actually need to
go) is already owned by someone, and is very valuable. There are rare
exceptions (apparently your embankment is one), but pretending that's
somehow normal is blatant cherry picking.

 It’s a particular type of cycleway, as city often do have embankments next
to the river, see Paris for other examples.
 

>
And integrating a bike lane into an existing road runs up against a
fundamental geometric problem: You're almost always trying to put
straight-ahead bike traffic to the right (in the U.S.) of motor vehicles
that may be turning right. The conflict should be obvious. That practice
is not allowed in any other road situation, for good reasons.
>
ISTM we're dealing with vague fantasies of huge herds of cyclists
flowing hassle-free and dwarfing the motorist population. Decades of
effort and resulting data have proven that it's really just fantasy.
>

Considering the size of of American roads there absolutely is space for
segregated cycle lanes

In some locations, yes. However by and large those are more wide-open areas where the distances necessary for travel are quite a bit longer than most people are capable of easily commuting by bike.
The issue here is in American cities. The newer cities in the Midwest/west could certainly implement a decent infrastructure, but most of the cities on the east coast are heavily congested with narrow roads designed and built (if they could even be considered as 'designed') well before the advent of cars.
Frank is correct that efforts to force bike infrastructure in the US are largely met with massive resistance, but mostly due to USAian attitude rather than than inherent flaws as he claims. In Europe there is much more acceptance of working towards the common good. That's why northeastern European countries consistently rank at the top of the 'happiness' studies while we in the US are saddled with an obnoxious, ignorant, and vocal minority of miserable selfish pricks.
https://www.mediamatters.org/facebook/marjorie-taylor-greene-penned-conspiracy-theory-laser-beam-space-started-deadly-2018

will they potentially need access points to be kept
open? Yes absolutely though doesn’t in my experience seem to matter,
Chiswick High road has one and being a high street has access across it, in
multiple places, as long as these aren’t high volume it seems to work.
 As ever stuff can be done but needs pragmatism and political bravery.
 Roger Merriman
  

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