Re: RE: Re: Take that lane!

On 4/20/2024 3:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Fri Apr 19 16:29:17 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:

On 4/19/2024 2:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

>
My daughter was doored ten days ago on Devon Avenue (north side Chicago)
and dumped into the traffic lane. Fortunately traffic stopped for her.
She's banged up but wasn't crushed to death with a 65mph impact.

>
I'll mention again: Dooring is a very dangerous type of crash, because
it often hooks the right handlebar, suddenly throwing the rider
leftward, possibly right in front of a car.
>
But dooring data is poorly captured. Most accident report forms treat it
the same as if the cyclist ran into something like a telephone poll.
It's not considered a crash with a "vehicle in transport."
>
And I'm told that Chicago did choose to record doorings - even though
many of their bike lanes actually promote dooring crashes, since they're
painted in the door zone. They found that something like 20% to 25% of
their car-bike crashes were doorings.
>
Don't ride in the door zone.
>
-- - Frank Krygowski
>

   Frank, While I agree withg you that there are times that it is safest to take a lane, I have to disagree with your depiction of bike lanes as being dangerous. There are no standards for bike lanes...

Actually, there are standards for bike lanes. One problem is that many jurisdictions violate the standards. Another problem is that many of the standards are themselves faulty.

and many of them are experimental.

Which makes sense ... how??
What other transportation infrastructure "experiments" with the unsuspecting public?
Let's propose an "experimental" car lane. It will be on a freeway. Instead of having the rightmost lane serve those driving straight and those exiting right, lets' say the rightmost lane is for those going straight. The second rightmost lane will be the one to use before you exit right. Got that? Let's experiment for a couple years and see if the straight-ahead motorists run into the right turning motorists crossing their path.
Should we subject motorists to that experiment?
Of course not. That would be an obvious crossing conflict. That's never, ever done on freeway lanes.
Oh, but almost every bike lane is designed that way.

Also drivers have to be aware of bike lanes and you're pretending that there isn't a learning period.

"Learning periods" should be safe! People learning to use roundabouts stop before entering. It's inefficient, but no more dangerous than a stop sign. That's not the case with things like "bike boxes" that tell cyclists to pull out in front of cars at a red light, but come with no warning to NOT do that just as the light is turning green.

Not to mention a learning curve where bicyclists have to watch for people about to open streetside doors.

"Watch for people opening doors" makes roughly zero sense. In many cases a cyclist can't see if anyone is inside a car. If they do see someone they can't tell if they'll open the door.
The real solution to dooring is "Don't ride in the door zone."  Even if a bike lane stripe tells you it's safe.
--
- Frank Krygowski