Re: The Destruction of Farms by Encroaching Cities.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:32:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 6/2/2024 4:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/2/2024 2:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/2/2024 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/2/2024 12:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/2/2024 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:

>
No public corporation could survive a billion dollar plus fiasco
such as complete loss with no results or even activity to show for it.
>
https://www.nydailynews.com/2021/12/29/1b-later-and-little-to-show-for-it-nycs-mental-health-initiative-proved-disappointing-we-didnt-do-a-good-job/

>
Some public corporations have displayed blatant and extreme
mismanagement, with top dogs skimming fortunes from underlings.
Here's one:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/national-rifle-association-and-longtime-leader-wayne-lapierre-are-found-liable-in-lawsuit-over-lavish-spending
>

>
Good example, and much like a notorious prior Cannondale exec's
fingers in the company's cookie jar. Lapierre was found liable for
"$4,351,231 in restitution" and  he's already gone from the
organization. Your item's 4 months old BTW; everybody knows this.
>
(good riddance, too IMHO. He did a lot of good at one time but went
off the rails as I see it)
>
Mr & Mrs Warren Wilhelm (stage name 'Bill DeBlasio') skated with well
over a billion dollars on that one escapade alone. No prosecution is
imminent or even likely.

>
Since your article is behind a paywall, I can't comment on it. But the
idea that non-government corporations are somehow terrific is
nonsense. LaPierre and cronies enjoyed skimming from the naive NRA
membership for over 30 years. I imagine many of his buddies are still
at it.
>
Here in Ohio, we have an electrical utility company that committed
record level bribery, bought lots of politicians and resulting
legislation, resorted to blatant lying propaganda to defeat a
citizen's initiative, and is still raking in taxpayer cash. Most of
the politicians who were entangled are still in office.
>
And of course other examples abound. I don't think most American
cities display those levels of corruption.
>
Which doesn't mean you need to live in one. Like most things, there
are advantages and disadvantages to cities, and some are better than
others. I prefer my suburban village, despite my knowledge of some of
its governmental stupidity.
>

 
You're arguing on something I did not write.

>
That's probably true. There seem to have been several leaps within this
thread, making discussions a bit hard to follow.

There are no good excuses for producing strawman arguments.

I'm reacting in part to
echoes of your previous arguments, which as I recall claimed almost
everything should be privatized because government is (always?) less
efficient.

<LOL>  Another strawman.

All human groups have some level of kleptomania among them. No one said
public companies are inherently competent or honest, let alone 'terrific'.

>
We agree. "Terrific" was an overstatement. My apologies.
>

Public companies' management are subject not only to criminal
prosecution but also removal for cause (or even just lack of confidence)
by shareholders as well as civil torts. All have frequent examples, well
reported. Clawbacks are also not rare BTW.
 
Public money on the other hand can and often does 'just disappear' with
small or no consequences. The tax rate goes up and people just live with
it.  And that's for merely outright theft. Malfeasance/misfeasance
(padding contracts for kickbacks, especially for useless ventures at
great expense) is common if not expected. And we mostly just suck it up.
 
Public companies are indeed held to a standard which is not applied to
similar financial size municipalities.  That was my point which is, I
think, unarguable.

>
I do think it's arguable, because I don't think we can ever have
accurate accounts of skullduggery and/or inefficiency by either team, so
to speak.
>
My direct knowledge of government workings is mostly confined to this
village, where I've been on various boards or committees for decades.
I've seen local decisions I considered stupid, and one that I considered
larcenous (maybe $10,000 worth), but mostly I've seen things done
reasonably well.
>
In engineering work (three different firms) I've seen at least as much
stupidity and inefficiency, and I think more misuse of funds. My wife
reported to me some serious illegalities at a couple places she worked,
including apparent bilking of insurance companies at one.

More undocumented claims....