Re: E-Biikes are not bicycles

On 9/26/2024 10:27 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

Am Tue, 24 Sep 2024 08:23:03 -0400 schrieb Zen Cycle
<funkmaster@hotmail.com>:
 

On 9/23/2024 8:47 PM, sms wrote:

On 9/23/2024 8:18 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
<snip>

...
 

Sorry, not buyin' it. Not to mention the fact that taking someone off an
e-bike and telling them they have to pedal is one way to completely put
them off cycling, regardless of the proper gearing.

 That makes no sense. Someone who has switched from a bicycle to an
E-bike has already essentially given up on cycling, regardless of how
some clueless politicians twist the laws to treat low-powered mopeds
like bicycles.

Of course it makes sense, You missed my point which was in response to SMS stating "The entire eBike industry would collapse if people found out that with proper gearing there is usually no need for an electric motor and batteries." (maybe because you snipped it?)
SMS supposed that no one would buy e-bikes if they "knew" proper gearing made the electric motor superfluous.
My point is
- SMS had a false first premise which was that better gearing made going up hills almost as easy
- if e-bike riders were to switch, they would be more than dissatisfied and maybe give it up altogether (I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying).
I also disagree that e-bike users as a rule have given up on cycling.

 

I'd suggest you go
out on an E-bike for an hour and ride some hills. You'll get a good
sense of why "with proper gearing there is usually no need for an
electric motor" is a rather myopic comment.

  This statement alone proves that e-bikes are not bicycles.   A bicycle
that gives a weak rider the power of a Tour de France athlete is not a
bicycle, but a motorcycle.  It does not have the essential
characteristics that distinguish a bicycle from a motorcycle.

Your opinion is duly noted as just that - your opinion.

 A bicycle is driven by the person sitting on it, that determines how it
is ridden. For a great part, this depends on how much power that person
can deliver and for how long, both short term, for looking at a single
ride, and in the long run.
 This isn't a static relation. Quite the opposite, how hard you exercise
your muscles while cycling and how long you train your cardiac system
influences how much you gain - or lose - in strength and endurance.   A
motorized bicycle, on the other hand, makes most of this unnecessary, as
it reduces these constraints and incentives to almost nothing.  All that
remains is the illusion of riding a bike.

Youir opinion is duly noted as your opinion

 A little bit of history and context, plus some technical details.
 

<large snip, feel free to open Wolfgangs post if you're interested>

with the result that many people are now forgoing
the benefits of real cycling and living unhealthier and more dangerous
lives by pseudo-cycling, instead.

A not unreasonable position, and certainly some thoughts I've had myself, but don't address SMS comment "The entire eBike industry would collapse if people found out that with proper gearing there is usually no need for an electric motor and batteries. "

>
My wife is a great example. Her favorite bike is a Jamis Dakar MTB 3x9
Deore. Even on the moderate hills around here on the road (with
semi-slicks) hills are very challenging. Sure, she's in the granny doing
6 mph on a 3% grade, but it's still a lot of work for a casual cyclist.

 For comparison:
 I'm 71 years old now, my wife is not much younger. I've never been into
sports, neither is she.  She could walk to work, I commuted by bike for
decades, had to give up cycling completely for quite some time after an
accident, but managed to gain some strength back, after retirement. Took
a while.

There's the rub, Neither of us are retired. She still runs her own business, I full full time+. She doesn't have the time to train to ride at a level where she feels comfortable riding with me. I don't have the time to ride with her at her speed while she develops AND ride to maintain my own fitness.
  < another large snip - again, feel free to review Wolfgans post if your interested>

 

>
Last year in Ireland we rented bikes. She got an E-bike (on my
insistence) and I got a regular bike (same basic bike, but with no
motor). She flew up hills much longer and steeper than anything around
here with little effort, leaving me behind gasping for air.

 Sure.  An E-bike gives her something she doesn't get from a real
bicycle, instant gratification, without effort.  This comes with a
price, though.

Gratification had nothing to do with it. Of course your forgetting something - we were on vacation and wanted to spend time together outdoors without taking a cab or tour bus. The E-bike helped us to stay together without her becoming exhausted. It was a wise decision.

Try telling her she'd do just as well with an "appropriately" geared
bike, and you'll get her classic 'you really can't be that clueless' glare.

 No comment.

Been there,done that, eh?

 

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