Re: Patching TPU innertube

On 1/2/2025 10:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/2/2025 5:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/2/2025 3:27 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/2/2025 1:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/2/2025 10:35 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

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Yes, scarcity affects price. A Mickey Mantle baseball card has no higher intrinsic value than any other baseball card. That really doesn't affect my points above.
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Unlike Mickey Mantle cards, the purported valuable characteristic of Strads is not rarity (there are hundreds of them); it's sound quality. The purported valuable characteristic of very expensive wines is not rarity (there are probably millions of such bottles); it's flavor.
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Those who disagree with me should give us links to a few studies where observers in blind comparison tests consistently said "Ah! THAT one is the Strad!" I've been reading about this issue for decades, and I've never heard of such results.
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And Andrew, I'm curious about your thoughts on the "feel" of closely comparable bike frames, or closely similar tires. Not tubulars vs. clinchers, or road slicks vs. knobbies. Say, parallel models of Continental vs. Michelin.
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I'm not so sure about all that.
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For example, the #2 currently most expensive French vintage is the 1907 Heidsieck & Co. Monopole Diamant Bleu, going for about $275000 per bottle. It does have an unique history and I choose this example because extant quantity is well known:
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"The above bottle was part of the cargo of the Swedish schooner Jönköping which was sunk of the coast of Finland in 1916 by a German U- boat.
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In 1997 the wreck was located and was salvaged. Of the original cargo of 4400 bottles of 1907 Heidsieck, Goüt Américain, some 2000 bottles were recovered by the salvage crew. Some bottles were tasted and the champagne was found to be in excellent condition, having withstood the pressure and been preserved in the dark, ice-cold water
1 bottle per lot"
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https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5150758
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2000 bottles, all in, is not 'millions'.  Highly desirable ($$$) but not recovered from shipwrecks French vintages were not produced by the millions, not even close.
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Although this is an oddity in some regards...

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:-)  THAT'S an understatement!
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... it does amply reflect price relationship to scarcity which, as with baseball cards or Ferraris, is well established.

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Yes, as I said when I referenced Mickey Mantle cards. But that has nothing to do with the fact that violins are available from ~$100 to many millions of dollars. Scarcity doubtlessly affects the price of Strads, but it can't affect the choices between a $300 fiddle and a $2,000 fiddle, since both are available right now.
https://www.sharmusic.com/collections/best-seller- product? sort_by=price-descending
The expectation is the $2000 one will sound better - and I expect it might. But I think violins get into the same "diminishing returns" situation as bikes. I'm skeptical that many can tell, in a blind test, whether a $20,000 fiddle sounds better than a $30,000 one. And in high end road bikes of similar construction and componentry, I think the situation is much the same.
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Regarding bicycles, evaluation of handling among quality examples is highly individual.  (for 'among quality examples', almost all road riders will take any year Cinelli Supercorse over even the best Murray Ohio.)

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Please remember, I've tried to limit discussion to devices that were at least roughly similar. Murrays were never anything like Cinellis.
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Each rider has not only different muscular, skeletal, proportion differences but also different riding position and weight distribution (all within a finite range but not exactly alike) and each rider also has preconcieved criteria. For example, one man's snappy is another's twitchy, stable to one rider is sluggish to another, etc.
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Attempts to quantify that will fail.
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Oh by the way. the absolutely best riding frame I ever owned was a 1976 Pogliaghi Italcorse 56cm. (pretty, too). Never should have sold it. Other riders may find that model wonderful but many others merely call them acceptable.

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Hmm. So there wouldn't be near-universal agreement that it was better than the Pogliaghi that was next down in the price range?  ;-)
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Nope.  No such thing.
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Sante Pogliaghi didn't build anything 2d class or 'low price' at that time.

 <sigh> OK. But I think most manufacturers did have a range of models, varying in price. I think most consumers expected the more expensive models should "feel" better, or perhaps be faster, or whatever. I think they expected that whether they could actually "feel" it, or more likely not.
 

Yes, there are/were notable exceptions (the famous Thron vs SL road test) but generally that is true. Not absolutely, but generally so. Such a purchase is at some point a leap of faith and cannot be studied to perfection (among similar items).
I might add that in the middle seventies, Pogliaghi wasn't anywhere near the highest priced among standard one meter road frames. But qualitatively right up there, and for me exceptionally well fit and balanced. Another guy of similar height & weight would perhaps not have the same experience and my opinion is based on having actually ridden it, a lot, after several other frames and before several more, that is, not a preconceived or received opinion at time of sale. I bought it based on being a well known one meter road frame from a guy known to build well and it was very beautiful (to me).  He wasn't giving them away, but many others were priced higher.
I suspect that individual expectation and taste affect other purchases. For another example, I bought my first Corvair impulsively. I wasn't looking for a car and the seller was short of cash. I took to the handling and road feel right away, before I knew much of the Corvair platform's features and foibles.
We all probably have experienced both surprisingly positive purchases (positive being some balance of satisfaction and price) and annoyingly disappointing purchases, even after prepurchase study and/or haggling.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971